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What types of velocities does the manual say you should be seeing with that weight bullet and caliber?
I don't have load data for this bullet and powder. The closest match is from Hodgdon using Hornadays 140g MFTX bullet which max's out at 2435fps with 34g of powder, compressed. (interesting they are compressing spherical powder...).
There is some user data published by Hammer on another forum, theres a guy using HLVR in the same rifle as mine getting 2540fps with 37g of HLVR but he didn't include other data like COAL or primer. Another user is getting nearly the same results in a Win 94 rifle. Hammers an interesting bullet, ive been following reloaders over there and they are all generally getting impressive velocities.

I might either stop and zero where Im at, or if Im not compressing the load maybe see if I can creep up on another 100fps where my 30-30 will be a heavy hitter out to 200yds since I'll be hunting elk with it this year.
 
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In my experience primer appearance is a poor pressure indicator. Different primers have different thickness and malleability so one might flow and another won’t.

I look for extractor marks on the base of the case and changes in the effort required to lift the bolt handle. Sounds like you’re dealing with a lever gun so bolt lift is out.

1 grain increments is kinda aggressive. I wouldn’t exceed .3 grains but I wouldn’t do .1 either.

So 143 grain round nose bullets at 2300 fps for elk?

Keep in mind 100 fps don’t mean much when it comes to bullet performance. Placement is waaaaay more important than speed.





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In my experience primer appearance is a poor pressure indicator. Different primers have different thickness and malleability so one might flow and another won’t.

I look for extractor marks on the base of the case and changes in the effort required to lift the bolt handle. Sounds like you’re dealing with a lever gun so bolt lift is out.

1 grain increments is kinda aggressive. I wouldn’t exceed .3 grains but I wouldn’t do .1 either.

So 143 grain round nose bullets at 2300 fps for elk?

Keep in mind 100 fps don’t mean much when it comes to bullet performance. Placement is waaaaay more important than speed.





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No extractor marks, easy lever "lift" (I know its not the same as rotating a bolt). Im still fairly new, but to my experience Im not seeing any signs of pressure.
Its possible I typoed somewhere but I start my initial ladders with 0.5g increments. From there I do another fine tune ladder in 0.1g increments around the "node" I picked from the initial ladder.

The 143g "Lever Hammer" bullet is a hollowpoint mono, Im getting 2400fps and will probably zero with that and call it good for now as Im running out of time. At some point I might do a fine tuned ladder around that. Im not going to worry about getting the extra 100fps but Im also not going to ignore improving the handload without a good reason. An extra 100fps will also help reduce drop and may help increase effective range of the monos terminal velocity.
 
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Funny enough, this came to my email a couple days ago.

 
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In my experience primer appearance is a poor pressure indicator. Different primers have different thickness and malleability so one might flow and another won’t.

I look for extractor marks on the base of the case and changes in the effort required to lift the bolt handle. Sounds like you’re dealing with a lever gun so bolt lift is out.

1 grain increments is kinda aggressive. I wouldn’t exceed .3 grains but I wouldn’t do .1 either.

So 143 grain round nose bullets at 2300 fps for elk?

Keep in mind 100 fps don’t mean much when it comes to bullet performance. Placement is waaaaay more important than speed.





P
Extractor marks or EJECTOR marks?
 
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Despite the typo I certainly meant "ejector marks", I went to edit my post but then remembered that my Marlin 336 doesnt have an ejector on the bolt face. Anyways, Im not seeing any other kind of impressions from the bolt face. The only other observation is my spent primer is a tad proud of the surface of the case.
 
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And don’t get me wrong, the .30-30 is plenty potent for elk at the right range with the right bullet.

From what I’ve read the monometals perform best when driven hard. It sounds like you won’t get that opportunity with a .30-30. So maybe this is a 125-150 yard choice?

7783F5E5-B3A8-4854-8FA8-F8F305C7D4A8.png




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And don’t get me wrong, the .30-30 is plenty potent for elk at the right range with the right bullet.

From what I’ve read the monometals perform best when driven hard. It sounds like you won’t get that opportunity with a .30-30. So maybe this is a 125-150 yard choice?

View attachment 1254138




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I guess this depends on what metric your using to determine the terminal performance on elk at the distance of impact?

Ive taken medium game out to 200yds with mine, its pretty much my limit with mine but thats due to the rifles accuracy than bullet performance.
 
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I guess this depends on what metric your using to determine the terminal performance on elk at the distance of impact?

Ive taken medium game out to 200yds with mine, its pretty much my limit with mine but thats due to the rifles accuracy than bullet performance.
From what I’ve read the monometals perform best at or above 2,000 fps impact velocity. Manufacturers say 1,800 (almost every bullet maker says 1,800) but that extra velocity ensures expansion.

Again, I have no experience hunting with monometals.




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From what I’ve read the monometals perform best at or above 2,000 fps impact velocity. Manufacturers say 1,800 (almost every bullet maker says 1,800) but that extra velocity ensures expansion.

Again, I have no experience hunting with monometals.




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Thats what Ive read too. Hammer says their bullets will deform down to 1800fps (In the LRH forum the owner says that because of the wider hollowpoint for tubular magazines this Lever Hammer will deform down to 1400fps but not that Id care to go that low...).

So this is why if I can get another 100fps out of this handload it would be ideal, Im currently at 2400fps (muzzle) which is estimated to be at 1889fps at 200yds. But thats an estimate not actual from my rifle (Hammers BC's are estimates only). Im fine with this load as is but if I can -safely- work up to 2500fps at the muzzle then its estimate at 200yds is 1935fps I think would be plenty for a bull at that distance.
 
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Heck, I’ve always used the two terms interchangeably. It’s whatever part that leaves a mark on the headstamp.

When I see the mark I back off the charge.

Usually.

Sometimes.

I don’t say clip when I mean magazine, though.
Generally ejector marks tells the tale of too high pressure as the case head is extruding into the ejector hole.
 
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Thats what Ive read too. Hammer says their bullets will deform down to 1800fps (In the LRH forum the owner says that because of the wider hollowpoint for tubular magazines this Lever Hammer will deform down to 1400fps but not that Id care to go that low...).

So this is why if I can get another 100fps out of this handload it would be ideal, Im currently at 2400fps (muzzle) which is estimated to be at 1889fps at 200yds. But thats an estimate not actual from my rifle (Hammers BC's are estimates only). Im fine with this load as is but if I can -safely- work up to 2500fps at the muzzle then its estimate at 200yds is 1935fps I think would be plenty for a bull at that distance.
I shot my most recent Cascade bull at 68 yards. Your Hammers at 2400 fps will be fine. Just don’t locate a big bull in a clear cut at 300 yards!
 
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I shot my most recent Cascade bull at 68 yards. Your Hammers at 2400 fps will be fine. Just don’t locate a big bull in a clear cut at 300 yards!
Not with a 30-30, I wont go over 200yds with a 30-30. Ive taken couple deer and a bear out at 200yds with my 30-30 but would prefer to stalk closer on an elk if possible get inside of 150yds max. I dont think Ive taken an elk past 100yds myself thinking about it now. Most hunting is around 75yds.
 
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Not with a 30-30, I wont go over 200yds with a 30-30. Ive taken couple deer and a bear out at 200yds with my 30-30 but would prefer to stalk closer on an elk if possible get inside of 150yds max. I dont think Ive taken an elk past 100yds myself thinking about it now. Most hunting is around 75yds.
What kind of .30-30 do you have?
 
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Without data , I would look for another gun that operates at the same presure level and check your best guess data against that.
I shoot 6.5x55 Swede Mauser. Data for new release bullets are pretty slim. But all the manufactures are creating data for 6.5 CM. Both rifles operate at the same pressure's, both generate about the same velocity, etc... Good Luck DR
 
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Random thoughts. Primer condition not always a reliable indicator of pressure. Ball powders typically do not have a wide range of flexibility; you get up to the top of the recommended range, you could get in trouble even with increases in small increments. The three bullets you cite are all copper solids; loads for copper bullets typically are a bit lower in charge amount as against comparable weight bullets in jacketed lead construction. Notwithstanding the PDR band design, which if true as claimed might mitigate this factor. Published velocities in recommended data are not always accurate. There are many variables between circumstances surrounding the published data and any given data obtained by a reloader. I've noted that Hodgdon velocities can be on the optimistic side, at least on some of their loads that I've tried. Narrowing your focus and chasing a specific velocity number might not be the best policy, especially when you lack published data from the get-go. Bottom line, at 34.0 gr., you're up to the max. recommended load using a substituted bullet and a ball powder. Personally, I would be uncomfortable proceeding further. Mention of a compressed load goes against my inclinations (especially with a ball powder).. Which the Hammer bullet people recommend against.

I looked at the loads list posted at the Long Range Hunters web site. Did you see the one fella's data, claimed he got over 2,800 fps out of a .30-30 with the 143 gr. bullet? Says he was using CFE 223, which Hodgdon doesn't have a published load for .30-30. I don't know, that list and others like it, it's based on submissions, you could call it self published. Of questionable reliability.
 
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It seams like to much thought going in on this subject. For an extra 50 fps.
My thought on this would be sell your 30/30 rifle and buy yourself a 30/06 rifle and be done.
It's like beefing up an old Chevy Vega to compete with a Chevy corvette.
I hunt deer back East every year and am successful every year. I average five deer a year.
Depending where I will be hunting and the average distance of the shot depends upon what gun I take out with me.
Under two hundred yards I take my 243.
Over two hundred yards I take either my 30/06 or my 25/06.
As simple as it gets.
And I do my own reloading here and back East.
I strive for accuracy and shot placement.
The nutshell in the bag.
It's always one shot/one kill.

Last year's harvest, I shot these deer.
My brother does OK too.
In addition to hunting Upstate New York, a buck tag, four doe tags and an archery stamp an additional buck or doe. $142.
This year we bought we bought Pennsylvania hunting licenses, we both have a buck tag and two doe tags, $162
We can get up to six doe tags in Pennsylvania, they cost $30 a tag for non-resident.
We process our deer and give alot away to friends & family.
I buy a nonresident trapping license $275 and we trap by the gut piles and use the scrap meat & bones for trapping bait.
It's not rocket science, it is skill to be successful. Most of the deer I kill could of been harvested with a 22 magnum rifle if it were legal.
My reloads are one hole at fifty yards from a rifle rest. I load the combination that gives me these results. The deer I shoot are either standing still or walking. I get to choose where the bullets will strike the deer for an instant death. It's a simple sport if you have the time and knowledge of your intended game animal.
I take off work for an entire month to hunt deer and drink beer and play poker with the guys back East.
I also take two weeks off of work in October to take my grandson small game hunting back in New York. He is successful on squirrels as well.

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