New Ford Bronco engine bay.

[HaveGun]

Yeah...

I could not imagine having to work on this nightmare. This is the production version of the 2.7 V6. I cannot imagine trying to change the plugs on this mess.



To be fair, I think most new vehicles are a nightmare to work on. I've never changed the oil in my 2019 4Runner since the dealer has been doing it for free, but I'm not looking forward to it since you have remove the front skidplate, and it has a cartridge-style oil filter, which I've never dealt with.

But, looking at the Bronco engine, it just screams that it is going to be a giant PITA to do anything under the hood.

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[Mikej]

Try grabbing a step ladder and looking under the hood of one of the GIANT pick-ups that GM, Ford or Dodge put out these days!

 

[HaveGun]

Try grabbing a step ladder and looking under the hood of one of the GIANT pick-ups that GM, Ford or Dodge put out these days!

2020 F-350 with the Powerstroke... Half the engine is in the cab and requires pulling the cab from the chassis to do many routine repairs.

 

[HaveGun]

Makes me miss the engine bay of my `65 GTO...

 

[Mikej]

Makes me miss the engine bay of my `65 GTO...

View attachment 815255

"Oh little GTO" Hubba Hubba! I drive a '84 GMC 1500 as my boat tow vehicle, so, yeah.

 

[HA556]

Ah yes, when things used to be simple!

 

[echo1]

I finally bought a scan tool. Tach/dwell meter...gone, feeler gage...gone, timing light...gone, unisyn...gone. PAX

 

[Mikej]

Ah yes, when things used to be simple!

View attachment 815267

Puch?

 

[albin25]

My first car was MUCH easier to work on....

 

[clearconscience]

Seems like they are just making the vehicles so you HAVE to take it to the dealer for repairs.

gone are the days of do it yourself.

 

[Deerhurst]

That bronco ain't too bad. I drive an Audi. It's like a super computer on wheels. Gotta disassemble half the thing to replace the PCV system. Love the car and how it drives and the engineering in it is beautiful but some stuff just makes you wonder.

 

[Alexx1401]

This has long been the "norm". My newest car came with free oil change but it's such a damn drive to the place I often just do it myself. It's one of the few things I will still do. Wife's jeep the oil filter is hard to even see, not sure what the hell the mechanic does to get at it but I let him. I for years had a Sebring I really liked. One day alternator was going. I looked at it, could see it there, thought of all the crap I would have to take off to get at it. Pictured never being able to get it all back, and took it to the shop. Alternator was $85, labor was $400. Wife was not happy but I told her I could see why. No longer was it a matter of just bolt one off and bolt one on. Alternator of Wife's jeep went years ago. I thought I could do that one since it's not the sideways engine and it's right there. Then I found to get it off had to take the damn front end of the car apart So to the shop it went.

 

[Deerhurst]

Wait until you see what you got to do to change the accessory belt on a B6 audi with the V6. While you are there you do the snub mount and the timing belt and tensioner because you have to remove the headlights, fascia, bumper, radiator, core support and headlight washer piping. Oh, and special tools to hold the cams.

Both my rigs need skid plates removed to change the oil filter. My truck has its oil filter tucked up high under the alternator with a steel skid plate protecting it all. My car has a giant belly pan that is now almost 1/4 inch thick aluminum that has to be removed for anything from under the car. I'd rather make an oil change be a PITA than take a rock to an oil pan.

 

[Alexx1401]

Wait until you see what you got to do to change the accessory belt on a B6 audi with the V6. While you are there you do the snub mount and the timing belt and tensioner because you have to remove the headlights, fascia, bumper, radiator, core support and headlight washer piping. Oh, and special tools to hold the cams.

Both my rigs need skid plates removed to change the oil filter. My truck has its oil filter tucked up high under the alternator with a steel skid plate protecting it all. My car has a giant belly pan that is now almost 1/4 inch thick aluminum that has to be removed for anything from under the car. I'd rather make an oil change be a PITA than take a rock to an oil pan.

I can understand them protecting the underside in something made to go off road but, seems some make it far harder than it has to be. My older jeep the filter is mounted on the side just under the hood. First time I went to change it took me a while to find it. I thought it could not be this easy, it was
Couple of them had skid plates but they had an access to get to the drain so you could just pull the plug out at least. Where they put it on Wife's jeep it's just almost impossible to even see it without the thing on a lift. Even then I suspect the mechanic probably mumbles a few words under his breath trying to get at the damn thing

 

[Ruger Rich]

In days long gone by I did everything my vehicles needed, everything. I was partner in a station for a couple of years and the gas/oil paid the overhead and wrenching gave us our income. As I left that scene and continued to buy trucks/cars things became more and more difficult. Later on I bought a new F150. At about 70K miles the plugs began to fail. It had all the appearance of a weekend job with the added horror of breaking one off due to the impossible location.
I paid to have it done, $508. And at the time I called around for pricing. Much later I got a letter from some attorneys asking if I wanted to participate in
a class action lawsuit naming Ford the defendant for the jacked up costs to do plugs. I signed on and much later got $250 from it. That is an example
of building something with no concern for future maintenance. To be fair, in those long ago years changing plugs was an easy fast cheap job, but the plugs were good for maybe 20K if lucky.

 

[HaveGun]

To be fair, in those long ago years changing plugs was an easy fast cheap job, but the plugs were good for maybe 20K if lucky.

Not on all cars. I had a `69 Ford Ranchero GT with the 390 4V motor and to change the back plug on the driver's side you had to unbolt the motor mount on that side and use a jack to lift the motor up to get to the plug due to the steering shaft being in the way.

 

[made in china]

I had an F-body Camaro that had the danged distributor under the windshield cowl.

The worst part about that new Bronco and most all new cars these days is that EVERYTHING is plastic, and UGLY under the hood. Makes it look overwhelming, the mangled mess of all-black plastic parts makes it difficult to tell one device from another.
The 2.7T in the Bronco is a reliable engine, and probably very easy to work on in a RWD F-150.
But on many body-on-frame vehicles adding 4WD significantly complicates things. Many things on my 4WD truck are 3x more difficult to do compared to it's 2WD version. Many things that look difficult to access on a modern engine can be accessed from underneath, UNLESS there's a bunch of 4WD gear in the way!

We have Ford Super Duty trucks at work. Many routine items are a cab-off affair.

And, regarding "making it too difficult to fix", that's an actual thing. Ask anyone who owns a modern car how expensive a windshield replacement can be because windshield-mounted driving aids must be re-calibrated, and ONLY by the dealer. Or, replacing a tail light on a newer F-150 that has BLIS, yes, you can buy the tail light and replace it yourself, but you'll need to have a Ford dealer or someone with Forscan activate/register the replacement tail light to the BCM.

Was just talking to a co-worker who said in 1991 he showed up to a Union job in a then-new Mazda B2200 truck. The Union guys smashed his headlights for bringing "Jap Crap" to a Union job. He said it cost him $12 to replace the headlights (those square glass kinds, you know, way back 30 years ago!).
My wife's Corolla has LED headlights that are $1200 a PIECE! 12% of the new MSRP of her car is just for the headlights. We're gonna be looking at a serious dilemma when the car is 10 years old and a $1200 headlight, that has no bulbs to replace, needs to be changed.

 

[Deerhurst]

I can understand them protecting the underside in something made to go off road but, seems some make it far harder than it has to be. My older jeep the filter is mounted on the side just under the hood. First time I went to change it took me a while to find it. I thought it could not be this easy, it was
Couple of them had skid plates but they had an access to get to the drain so you could just pull the plug out at least. Where they put it on Wife's jeep it's just almost impossible to even see it without the thing on a lift. Even then I suspect the mechanic probably mumbles a few words under his breath trying to get at the damn thing

For the car I'm glad I have the skid plate. I've got about 4 inches between the dirt and the belly.

The oil filter on the top is nice and all but can cause one hell of a mess. I gotta pull the pan to drain the oil anyways so it's.not a biggie if I have to change a filter from the bottom. I opted for no holes because they can get caught on stuff. Smooth belly all the way down. Good for aero too. It's a good 30+ pound thing. I have to get the car on a lift or on ramps but it's too low so I need to build ramps to get up on the ramp.

 

[Deerhurst]

I had an F-body Camaro that had the danged distributor under the windshield cowl.

The worst part about that new Bronco and most all new cars these days is that EVERYTHING is plastic, and UGLY under the hood. Makes it look overwhelming, the mangled mess of all-black plastic parts makes it difficult to tell one device from another.
The 2.7T in the Bronco is a reliable engine, and probably very easy to work on in a RWD F-150.
But on many body-on-frame vehicles adding 4WD significantly complicates things. Many things on my 4WD truck are 3x more difficult to do compared to it's 2WD version. Many things that look difficult to access on a modern engine can be accessed from underneath, UNLESS there's a bunch of 4WD gear in the way!

We have Ford Super Duty trucks at work. Many routine items are a cab-off affair.

And, regarding "making it too difficult to fix", that's an actual thing. Ask anyone who owns a modern car how expensive a windshield replacement can be because windshield-mounted driving aids must be re-calibrated, and ONLY by the dealer. Or, replacing a tail light on a newer F-150 that has BLIS, yes, you can buy the tail light and replace it yourself, but you'll need to have a Ford dealer or someone with Forscan activate/register the replacement tail light to the BCM.

Was just talking to a co-worker who said in 1991 he showed up to a Union job in a then-new Mazda B2200 truck. The Union guys smashed his headlights for bringing "Jap Crap" to a Union job. He said it cost him $12 to replace the headlights (those square glass kinds, you know, way back 30 years ago!).
My wife's Corolla has LED headlights that are $1200 a PIECE! 12% of the new MSRP of her car is just for the headlights. We're gonna be looking at a serious dilemma when the car is 10 years old and a $1200 headlight, that has no bulbs to replace, needs to be changed.

The plastic isn't just in the engine bay but in the cabin too. It's disgusting.

Buddy of mine used to be a 6.7L mechanic at Ford. He said the body off stuff wasn't bad....if you had the right tools.

Isn't Forscan free? I run VCDS, also known as Vag-Com. It's awesome!

I hear ya on the headlights. They are easy $1k for my 17 year old Audi, granted it has autolevelling and all that but that's just a tiny stepper motor. bubblegums expensive.

 

[made in china]

The plastic isn't just in the engine bay but in the cabin too. It's disgusting.

Buddy of mine used to be a 6.7L mechanic at Ford. He said the body off stuff wasn't bad....if you had the right tools.

Isn't Forscan free? I run VCDS, also known as Vag-Com. It's awesome!

I hear ya on the headlights. They are easy $1k for my 17 year old Audi, granted it has autolevelling and all that but that's just a tiny stepper motor. bubblegums expensive.

Cab-off is not bad at all for a shop set up for it. You gotta have a way and place to set the cab aside from the chassis, especially if you are waiting for parts. The issue is for our trucks that are upfitted, the cab doesn't disconnect as easily with all of the custom wiring and hydraulic lines added.

I used OBDEleven for my GTI when I had it.