Need help with 1911- half cock failure

[Ura-Ki]

 

[Ura-Ki]

That photo is showing a "capture" style 1/2 cock notch.

Compare that to the photo of my Officers Model hammer.

Correct! None of mine have this! The photo I posted is the only other type I have seen!

 

[KKG]

View attachment 609280

Now there is the proper design. I've never looked at a Series 80 because of the Firing Pin Block which I see no reason for. Thanks anyway, I just had a Bar of Soap!

 

[KKG]

Hammer from a Colt Officers Model Series 80. Note the notch will not capture the sear at 1/2 cock.

View attachment 609278



I was trained by Richard Neimer, who was a gunsmith at Detonics in the 80s until they closed in Seattle.

Yes, all Detonics 1911 style pistols have a 1/2 cock notch.

Most are captured, some are not. As long as the sear is tensioned correctly by the sear spring, it will catch that notch and keep the hammer from contacting the firing pin.

You were Trained by a Good man!

 

[Cerberus Group]

You were Trained by a Good man!

When he passed, I received all of his tools from his daughter.

 

[KKG]

It's my understanding that the 1/2 notch was to allow carry with a loaded chamber with the hammer at half cocked so as not to have it resting on the firing pin and putting pressure on a primer! None of mine have this, it's ether cocked all the way, or like a series 80, resting at a 1/4 UN COCKED position that cannot fall the rest of the way no matter what! Even my Series 70's have this set up!

I'd like to state that, even with the 1911A1 Hammer down on a Loaded Chamber, the Firing Pin will NOT contact the Primer, at least, if the Gun is in good condition. I suggest you take the Slide off the Gun and press the back of the Firing Pin until it is Flush, now look at the Face of the Bolt and you will see Nothing of the Firing Pin coming through!!!

The ATF(when that's all they were) came up with this CRAZY idea about dropping Firearms on their Muzzle. If you can fix up a gig(I think what they had to build was something like 8 feet IIRC) to make a Colt fall that way it will discharge a round. Now just how many of you run around dropping ANY Sidearm from 8 feet???

 

[KKG]

When he passed, I received all of his tools from his daughter.

you were a VERY Lucky Man!

 

[flashpan]

Thanks everyone...so have not lost any parts yet and here is what it looks like inside. The guns is very very clean from CMP>
I sure its not the wider short original 1911 hammer and was replaced with the std narrow hammer. Can anyone detect here why it will drop the hammer. The capurted 1/2 cock notch looks sharp....but I do not know what the sear edge should look like.
Not sure about the sear spring setting either? Thanks Again.
BTW ... the 1/2 will engage and stop the hammer if you let it slip off your thumb before full cock.

 

[Alexx1401]

Nothin worse than goin off half cocked.
I have a 1911 made in 1918. I received this from CMP and now learning about what parts were swtched out etc. It passed all the std function tests except...the hammer will drop from 1/2 cock position when the trigger is pulled. Not suposed to do that...right? Could use some advise from you knowledgeable fellow members. Thanks

This thread is an amazing example of what so often happens from asking this kind of question on the net. The "safety catch" call it half or quarter, is not meant to keep the hammer from dropping when trigger is pulled. So yes, your 1911 is fine to shoot if this is the only thing bothering you. My old 1911 made in 1918 would also not allow the hammer to fall when in this position by pulling the trigger. It still had the original hammer though. Unless the pistol is not correct it can not fire when the hammer falls from the mentioned notch. The pin is not touching the primmer when the hammer is down. IF SOMEONE HAS NOT DONE SOMETHING WRONG!!
I have a couple A1's made by Springfield that are not "80 series, pin block" style. Yes if the hammer is on the catch you can drop it the rest of the way with the trigger. This is how they were made. The second catch is only there to catch the hammer if while pulling it back you let it slip and it falls before engaging the full cock.
So take your prize to the range and shoot the hell out of it. It should be a minor crime to buy a new to you 1911 like this and not have it at the range within 24 hours.

 

[KKG]

One possible explanation is if you let the Hammer down from Full Cock, it's possible to set the Sear down on the Nose of the 1/2 Cock Notch, then you could have what you have described.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Can't tell from the pic 100%, but it appears both the notch and sear nose are worn a bit...and the hammer hooks really look suspect. They should be cut at 90 degrees, from the pic, they look far from that.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'd like to state that, even with the 1911A1 Hammer down on a Loaded Chamber, the Firing Pin will NOT contact the Primer, at least, if the Gun is in good condition. I suggest you take the Slide off the Gun and press the back of the Firing Pin until it is Flush, now look at the Face of the Bolt and you will see Nothing of the Firing Pin coming through!!!

The ATF(when that's all they were) came up with this CRAZY idea about dropping Firearms on their Muzzle. If you can fix up a gig(I think what they had to build was something like 8 feet IIRC) to make a Colt fall that way it will discharge a round. Now just how many of you run around dropping ANY Sidearm from 8 feet???

Yep, and it has to fall on the muzzle. Years ago a guy made a jig to do this with a Kel-Tec pistol. Showing it would fire a blank round when he used his jig to pound it down on the muzzle. He did not like it much when shown that when dropped the loaded pistol could not be made to land that way without the help of the jig.
Anyone who is over worried take a loaded 1911, nothing in chamber, try dropping it from any height onto something like a bed. It will not land on the muzzle. This is another of those things someone came up with that continues to fool a lot of people and what lead to the 80 series pin block. Just to get some to "feel better"

 

[KKG]

I will leave this Thread with the Following; I recommend you take this to somebody who knows his business - Cerberus Group - might qualify from statements made here - have an "Action Job" done and pay the bills. New parts would be a good investment. IMHO

 

[flashpan]

It is a crime ... I've had it for a couple weeks now. But I was playing it safe with a 101 year old pistol. Maybe shoot this ammo ? Might have to clean it up a bit. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[spookshack]

Sell that relic and buy a Glock. The end....

 

[Alexx1401]

It is a crime ... I've had it for a couple weeks now. But I was playing it safe with a 101 year old pistol. Maybe shoot this ammo ? Might have to clean it up a bit. Thanks again for all the help!

View attachment 609303 View attachment 609304

EEEK! I have shot ammo older than my parents before and no problems. Now that stuff there I think I would pass on. Assuming it's only the one box? I would toss it. At best pull it apart for the components. It's been stored poorly.
As for the pistol? As long as it passes other function tests? Shoot it and have fun.
As long as enough parts have been replaced that it's no longer "collector" maybe put better sights on it. Even that is iffy now days though. The Mil issue 1911's so often bring insane prices now days even when they are not totally original. Makes me wish I had set aside a few back when they were so easy to find in Excellent shape.

 

[flashpan]

Not to worry ... the ammo pic was for effect.

 

[thorborg]

I have a Remington 1911R1 too as well as several USGI M1911s and M1911A1s. The Remington 1911R1 has a Series 80 type hammer and the hammer dropping from 1/4 cock when the trigger is pulled is normal behavior. That is also confirmed by the book I referenced above. I just went out to my safe and verified that my Remington 1911R1 hammer drops from 1/4 cock when I pull the trigger but my USGI pistols do not.

Thanks for that comparison info. I like my R1, so it makes little difference, but It was sort of touted as a "close copy" of the real thing, yet I keep finding things like this not previously mentioned which shows it to be a more distant cousin than lead to believe..

 

[ma96782]

I'm not claiming to KNOW. And, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

But, C-O-L-T. Four clicks. But, that is with my SAA.

NOT on a M1911 (i.e. the 4 clicks).

Then, I also use the term "half cock", when referring to the M1911's hammer position just shy of "full cock". Imagine that you're riding on a moving/galloping horse and you're pulling back the hammer. Ooops, the hammer slipped before the hammer was fully cocked. Well, I'm glad that I got that "half cock" notch.

Not to mention/avoiding, the whole idea/debate of why I don't have my M1911 firearm "cocked and locked". LOL.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Ura-Ki]

I'd like to state that, even with the 1911A1 Hammer down on a Loaded Chamber, the Firing Pin will NOT contact the Primer, at least, if the Gun is in good condition. I suggest you take the Slide off the Gun and press the back of the Firing Pin until it is Flush, now look at the Face of the Bolt and you will see Nothing of the Firing Pin coming through!!!

The ATF(when that's all they were) came up with this CRAZY idea about dropping Firearms on their Muzzle. If you can fix up a gig(I think what they had to build was something like 8 feet IIRC) to make a Colt fall that way it will discharge a round. Now just how many of you run around dropping ANY Sidearm from 8 feet???

We tested this theory while in the Service with a pallet of Colts, never could get one to pop off no matter how hard we tried! We hit them with mallets, mounted in a vice, tossed them down, dropped them, anything we could think of, nothing! We also tried smacking the hammer with a mallet with the hammer down on a live chamber, nothing!