JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
My follow-up on 80 y/o homeowner who shot 'pregnant' robber...
- Thread Starter Monica Cowles
- Start date
- Messages
- 10,374
- Reactions
- 29,745
Not to talk period.
One thing I was told by a LEO years ago if you get into trouble don't say a word.
Most of the time if people didn't talk cops would never have enough to charge them
One thing I was told by a LEO years ago if you get into trouble don't say a word.
Most of the time if people didn't talk cops would never have enough to charge them
- Messages
- 425
- Reactions
- 1,358
- Thread Starter
- #23
My kids will tell you, one of my favorite words is 'balance'....
This gentleman should have hung himself legally with his interview, but for whatever reason he was smiled upon.
However, there is a 'judicious' use of the 5th amendment, then there is the 'jerky' use of the 5th...one should clearly know the difference, as there may be lots of lawyers fees and a prison term on the line...
This gentleman should have hung himself legally with his interview, but for whatever reason he was smiled upon.
However, there is a 'judicious' use of the 5th amendment, then there is the 'jerky' use of the 5th...one should clearly know the difference, as there may be lots of lawyers fees and a prison term on the line...
- Messages
- 460
- Reactions
- 851
Monica, You've given some very good information. however, I need to ask a question, no disrespect intended.
I've noticed that your very Pro LEO. You and I know that there are some good LEO, and some very bad LEO. I'm not sure if you teach gun safety, and if so, do you work with LEO often? Just curious. thanks again for your info.
I've noticed that your very Pro LEO. You and I know that there are some good LEO, and some very bad LEO. I'm not sure if you teach gun safety, and if so, do you work with LEO often? Just curious. thanks again for your info.
- Messages
- 425
- Reactions
- 1,358
- Thread Starter
- #25
No disrespect taken for an honest question.
I am not embarrassed or ashamed of being 'very Pro LEO'......or Pro doctor, or Pro mechanic, or Pro teacher....etc.
Every segment of the population has it's bad apples, and the 'good' ones shouldn't have to take the heat for the 'bad' ones. (I try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.)As far as teaching, yes, I am a firearm safety/crime prevention instructor and do interact on a limited basis with local LEO. In addition, my father was in LE for 30 years, and he was (and is) definitely a 'good guy'...<3
If you want to call that biased, I'm fine with that...HAHA! Thanks for asking!
No disrespect taken for an honest question.
I am not embarrassed or ashamed of being 'very Pro LEO'......or Pro doctor, or Pro mechanic, or Pro teacher....etc.
As far as teaching, yes, I am a firearm safety/crime prevention instructor and do interact on a limited basis with local LEO. In addition, my father was in LE for 30 years, and he was (and is) definitely a 'good guy'...<3
Thanks for asking!
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree
.
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
The legal answer is generally no - IMO (IANAL, but I have read up on the subject).
The threat is not "imminent" and it ceases to be so when someone is walking/running away/leaving.
You can't shoot someone based on an implied *future* threat.
Hypothetical E.G.; you and I have a heated argument and I leave saying I am going home to get my gun to come back and kill you. You cannot shoot me as I am leaving as the threat is not imminent. If I *immediately* come back after leaving, then you shoot me on my return, you would possibly have a *workable* defense in court that I was following through on my threat and you assumed I had a firearm - at least in many locales in the USA anyway.
If you saw me a week later walking down the street, you would have no defense for shooting me on sight unless I was running up to you waving a gun. A period of time had passed and a reasonable person would assume I never meant to actually follow through on my threat or that I cooled down and thought better of it.
"Heat of the moment" has some legal validity. "Heat of a week later" does not.
However, if a criminal threatened you with harm, and then showed up at your house with no other legal reason to be there, then you would possibly have a workable defense in court for shooting the criminal, especially if they had the means, and displayed intention to follow through.
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
OTOH, in a SHTF/WROL situation (lots of acronyms there - sorry), letting someone walk away after threatening your life might not be the wisest decision either.
I wrote a PAW story a few years ago, posted on a survivalist forum, called "The Old Man" where fecal matter had recently hit the fan, rule of law/government was not coming back anytime soon, it was every man/woman for themselves.
Here is an excerpt:
At that time a young family came by on the road, a man and a woman with two kids and supplies in a covered jogging stroller came over to the fire barrel to warm up. The young men started harassing them and the man and woman backed off. The Old Man had enough.
"Leave them be." He said.
"What? Old man you better shut the **** up and leave us be to our fun." said one young man.
"Yeah, get the **** out here old man" said another.
The young family had backed away from the barrel and were starting to move towards the road to leave. The Old Man yelled towards the family "Wait!", he said "these gentlemen are leaving now".
One of the young men laughed and said "and what if we don't want to leave?"
The Old Man had turned around to his bicycle trailer and reached under a poncho, then turned back again towards the young men. In his hands was a bullpup 12 ga. Mossberg pump shotgun that he leveled at the group of young men, he said "I am afraid I am going to have to insist that you leave".
"Whoa! Were the **** did you get that? Those ain't legal anymore!" exclaimed one of the young men.
The Old Man smiled and said "Oh, I dug it up somewhere and I no longer care if it is legal or not. So… Leave… Now."
The group of young men scrambled to get back out towards the road, but being young and impudent usually go together, so one taunted the old man yelling at him "I am going to go get a gun too and come looking for you old man!"
The Old Man stepped forward and raised the shotgun to his shoulder and took aim at the braggart who was just standing there giving him the finger, confident that the Old Man would not dare shoot him, while the rest of the group dispersed and started running.
The Old Man shot the braggart, where he stood, in the chest with a load of buckshot. The rest of the group was running full tilt down the road.
When they were out of sight the Old Man turned back to his bicycle trailer and laid the shotgun down and motioned to the family to return to the fire barrel. After some discussion they agreed to return, against the protestations of the wife.
Meanwhile the farmers returned to the fire barrel too.
One young farmer said "Holy S*** Old Man, you just shot an unarmed man!"
The Old Man looked at him and said "What? I wasn't supposed to take his threat seriously? He said he was going to go get a gun and come back looking for me. Was I supposed to wait for him to do that at his leisure, on his time and where he chooses? Not gonna happen. This is a different world now, with different rules, and there is no longer any law enforcement to deal with such threats, so we have to deal with them ourselves. The sooner everybody realizes that the better off we will be. The rest of those punks learned a lesson today - maybe now it will sink into their thick skulls that their antics won't be tolerated any longer."
I am not saying that I yearn for that kind of world. I am much happier in a world where we have rule of law, as imperfect as it may be, it is a much better and happier life than I would have in any place or time without rule of law and LEOs.
But if SHTF and there was no rule of law, even temporarily, it is quite possible that we would all have to adjust our attitudes and tactics to some degree.
I wrote a PAW story a few years ago, posted on a survivalist forum, called "The Old Man" where fecal matter had recently hit the fan, rule of law/government was not coming back anytime soon, it was every man/woman for themselves.
Here is an excerpt:
At that time a young family came by on the road, a man and a woman with two kids and supplies in a covered jogging stroller came over to the fire barrel to warm up. The young men started harassing them and the man and woman backed off. The Old Man had enough.
"Leave them be." He said.
"What? Old man you better shut the **** up and leave us be to our fun." said one young man.
"Yeah, get the **** out here old man" said another.
The young family had backed away from the barrel and were starting to move towards the road to leave. The Old Man yelled towards the family "Wait!", he said "these gentlemen are leaving now".
One of the young men laughed and said "and what if we don't want to leave?"
The Old Man had turned around to his bicycle trailer and reached under a poncho, then turned back again towards the young men. In his hands was a bullpup 12 ga. Mossberg pump shotgun that he leveled at the group of young men, he said "I am afraid I am going to have to insist that you leave".
"Whoa! Were the **** did you get that? Those ain't legal anymore!" exclaimed one of the young men.
The Old Man smiled and said "Oh, I dug it up somewhere and I no longer care if it is legal or not. So… Leave… Now."
The group of young men scrambled to get back out towards the road, but being young and impudent usually go together, so one taunted the old man yelling at him "I am going to go get a gun too and come looking for you old man!"
The Old Man stepped forward and raised the shotgun to his shoulder and took aim at the braggart who was just standing there giving him the finger, confident that the Old Man would not dare shoot him, while the rest of the group dispersed and started running.
The Old Man shot the braggart, where he stood, in the chest with a load of buckshot. The rest of the group was running full tilt down the road.
When they were out of sight the Old Man turned back to his bicycle trailer and laid the shotgun down and motioned to the family to return to the fire barrel. After some discussion they agreed to return, against the protestations of the wife.
Meanwhile the farmers returned to the fire barrel too.
One young farmer said "Holy S*** Old Man, you just shot an unarmed man!"
The Old Man looked at him and said "What? I wasn't supposed to take his threat seriously? He said he was going to go get a gun and come back looking for me. Was I supposed to wait for him to do that at his leisure, on his time and where he chooses? Not gonna happen. This is a different world now, with different rules, and there is no longer any law enforcement to deal with such threats, so we have to deal with them ourselves. The sooner everybody realizes that the better off we will be. The rest of those punks learned a lesson today - maybe now it will sink into their thick skulls that their antics won't be tolerated any longer."
I am not saying that I yearn for that kind of world. I am much happier in a world where we have rule of law, as imperfect as it may be, it is a much better and happier life than I would have in any place or time without rule of law and LEOs.
But if SHTF and there was no rule of law, even temporarily, it is quite possible that we would all have to adjust our attitudes and tactics to some degree.
In the old west they used to hang horse thieves and with good reason, loosing your horse could cause you death. Today's thieves will find an old man like this and steal his medicine which again my cause his death. Justice has changed and life doesn't seem to mean much anymore, that is unless you take life of a thief. Wonder why that is?
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
In such a situation, IMO, there would be no prisons. There would be either banishment for some non-capital crimes, and death for capital crimes (the definition of which would expand), with many people handing out "justice" on the spot.Yep, a shtf would really change the way justice would be handled. Sounds like in your view there won't be much use in prisons.
That said, such a SHTF situation is unlikely in the USA. Some other parts of the world, it is simply how things are done as a matter of course, either because of a lack of law enforcement, or because there are no laws, or because of corruption. You don't have to go far - look at what is happening in some parts of Mexico.
In a SHTF a thief could kill your family by what they steal so yes the laws would change quickly. I won't be alive to see it happen but some time in the future it could I guess.
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
Back in the USA and today (not some PAW fictional future), a common misunderstanding among some people is that they can shoot someone in defense of their personal property. For the most part, self-defense laws do not allow this.
And yet, every once in a while, you hear a case of someone shooting someone for stealing something. Sometimes they even shoot them as they are running away. You hear of these cases because the news story mentions they are being charged with assault or even homicide of some sort.
My policy is that if I decide that I will defend my property from theft, I will defend it by placing myself between the thieves and my property. In that case, to get to my property they have to come at me, at which time I will defend myself.
And yet, every once in a while, you hear a case of someone shooting someone for stealing something. Sometimes they even shoot them as they are running away. You hear of these cases because the news story mentions they are being charged with assault or even homicide of some sort.
My policy is that if I decide that I will defend my property from theft, I will defend it by placing myself between the thieves and my property. In that case, to get to my property they have to come at me, at which time I will defend myself.
Most people are good and that is why we have so few cops. We remain civilized even after some horrible crimes and let government take care of justice. It seems the old man didn't have to go to jail but I wonder about his future, he lives in a bad neighborhood.
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
I suspect that the old man may have fewer troubles in the future.
There may be some criminals who feel they want to make an example of him to prove themselves, but they may think twice about it now. I don't know.
Generally criminals prey on those they perceive as weak and/or easy targets.
There may be some criminals who feel they want to make an example of him to prove themselves, but they may think twice about it now. I don't know.
Generally criminals prey on those they perceive as weak and/or easy targets.
Having read he had been robbed twice before tells me he has something people want and too many know about it. Reminds me of a jeweler in Kali that had quite a record of gunfights before he finally had to move out of town. Animals look for a sign of weakness and 80 years old is a big sign. He needs to leave that area and keep quiet about what he owns.
Edited to add, I bet he won't move because he is a fighter.
Edited to add, I bet he won't move because he is a fighter.
- Messages
- 42,707
- Reactions
- 110,900
In my experience, thieves will steal anything and everything.
When I was in college thieves went through a bunch of cars one night. They got my tool box (broke a window to get to it), stole cigarettes, sunglasses, gloves, anything they could grab easily and quickly.
Of course they prefer the high value stuff, but they will steal anything they can.
When I was in college thieves went through a bunch of cars one night. They got my tool box (broke a window to get to it), stole cigarettes, sunglasses, gloves, anything they could grab easily and quickly.
Of course they prefer the high value stuff, but they will steal anything they can.
I reported a theft and the cops asked if I had locked the car to prevent theft. I said no and they told me I should have. So I started locking the truck and the next thief busted the drivers side window to steal an old sweat shirt. He did $400 worth of damage. I quit locking the car again.
- Messages
- 425
- Reactions
- 1,358
- Thread Starter
- #39
Another fascinating follow-up....apparently he 'lied' to the media....????
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...nt-home-invader-apparently-lied-to-the-media/
So the forensic evidence backed up the story he told the prosecutors..which was that the female was shot 2 times, once in the knee and once in the chest. Which is the real reason he wasn't charged. That makes me feel better, as it would set a very bad precedent if the story was as he told the media and he was still let off.
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defen...nt-home-invader-apparently-lied-to-the-media/
So the forensic evidence backed up the story he told the prosecutors..which was that the female was shot 2 times, once in the knee and once in the chest. Which is the real reason he wasn't charged. That makes me feel better, as it would set a very bad precedent if the story was as he told the media and he was still let off.
Upcoming Events
New Classified Ads
-
-
-
Promoted Radian Model 1 11.5 build. For Trade/Sale
- Started by MrChunkyMonkey
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
Handcrafted Leather Wallets. Made to Last from Full Grain Cowhide. Great Price. $20 to $50- Started by ddjchemist
- Replies: 4
-
-
-