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Mult-purpose optics / swapping scopes

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Lavaspit, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Lavaspit

    Lavaspit California New Member

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    Hey guys,

    Sorry to top post as a new member, but I think what Im asking is a larger conversation: modularity of optics.

    Im just getting into the rifle world. Bolt action, rimfire, and eventually some form of semi that I like the looks of.

    Im strongly considering getting an ISSC MK22 rimfire .22 for plinking on the cheap and staying sharp. Its a fun little toy. But perhaps that $500 could be put to better use.

    In any case, Im wondering of all the scopes discussed what single solution you would suggest for two fairly low end rifles - my RONI stock kit (converts a PX4 handgun into a carbine), and the ISSC? A red dot, an affordable BSA sweet, or a Mueller APV that is favorably mentioned a lot. Generally, are people for or against swapping out scopes and optics in general? Do you mate your scope to your gun, zero it, and keep it that way? Or do you shift yoru resources around?

    The main reason Im asking is that Im saving the big bucks for my Tikka T3 scope when the time is right. Thats my ongoing project, and Im looking at Vipers, Leupold, etc. Thats a whole other conversation, but Id sure love to get away with something under the price of the rifle itself. Any word on a second hand tactical scopes while Im at it?

    I hope Im not showing my ignorance by dancing around the central fact that Im trying to save a buck. You get what you pay for, we all know that. But I dont have that much invested in the carbine or the rimfire yet.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    As for what scope kinda depends on what style will fit you use best.

    On the swapping part I would say no. If you have 2 guns that you shoot often then each needs there own. Each time you take it off you would have to re-zero it for the other gun. Now with that said I have been known to steal a scope off a gun that does not get shot much to play with it on a new or more used gun.
     
  3. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Hillsboro, Oregon Member

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    Don't ignore used optics, especially Leupold or others with similar warranties.

    Myself, I like to use EGW's picatinny rails on my rifles and burris xtreme rings;
    this way I can swap scopes without too much trouble. BTW--I always lap my
    rings to keep from stressing the tubes.
    Good luck!
     
  4. Poseidon

    Poseidon Oregon Member

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    I am fairly new to this and therefore certainly not an authority so please take this with a grain of salt. I don't like trading optics around much.

    The equipment we have is imperfect. If you look at a writeup on how to "properly" mount a scope you will typically see lapping tools and sometimes scope mount reamers. This is the for people that want it very precise and consistent. Your mounts are never perfectly straight, the rail my have inconsistencies and of course budget priced optics may not be perfectly true ether. These slight imperfections will cause a slight flexing and twisting each time you take them on and off.

    Taking the optics off and on will create a lot of physical wear on them and the mounts and associated equipment will wear with time and begin to be very loose or ill fitting, especially bargain priced equipment.

    From a convenience factor it is also never "ready when you need it". Even if you don't live in terror each night of having to protect your home from the latest zombie invasion engineered by the umbrella corporation you will still want to be able to pick it up and go shooting with a limited amount of fuss.

    Iron or open sights are actually more fun than you might first think. It is also a fantastic skill to have in my opinion. If the pistol bug ever gets you then you are already more comfortable with open sights.

    With all that said Leopold does make some quick change sight mounts but I doubt they come cheep.

    As for scopes I have limited hands on experiences with different optics. I wanted a budget scope myself and recently bought a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 mill dot new for $190 and I like it. I think that variable power is often like having a scope in general and is something we get sucked into thinking we must have. I have scopes with variable power and almost never use it. Most people you talk to will almost never spin the magnification ring or have maybe 2 setting they occasionally change back and forth between. A fixed power scope is nice because it is simple and consistent and I think you really get a feel for it quicker because it is the same every time.

    I would recommend trying the sights that come with it before you buy optics and I would not recommend swapping them back and forth all the time. It is ultimately up to you and I would recommend pondering how and at what distances you plan to use these rifles and then get the appropriate thing for that distance.
     
  5. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    I don't change optics very often.
    I look for a scope for a gun. If I like it stays on the gun. I am big guy 6' 2" so the hard part is finding a scope mount that allows me to get the cheek weld I want.
     
  6. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    I swap scopes on flat top AR's often. I don't have to touch the rings dealing with the standard Picatinny rail. Each rifle well have a different POI and well need minor adjustments to the scope. I use QD rings and it's a quick and easy swap. I have a couple of different scopes I use on A1/A2 handles also.

    I wouldn't do much swapping if it involved changing the ring location or to a different set of rings. Once I have a set of rings mated to a scope tube they stay put.
     
  7. Lavaspit

    Lavaspit California New Member

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    Thanks guys. What does it mean to "lap a ring"?
     
  8. 8ball29

    8ball29 Oregon Coast Member

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    This is mighty pricey for a rifle that is made by a lesser known manufacturer and the rifle is quiet heavy (it weighs as much as a stock configured ar-15.) I would strongly suggest looking at the S&W M&P 15-22 if you want a "tacticool" .22lr based on it's performance record (excellent), price, modularity, and the availability of parts and accessories. Most importantly get what fills your desire. If it's the MK22 you want, by all means get it. If you can, try to get trigger time on each of these and make sure it's everything you want it to be. The good 'ole 10/22 has served the needs of millions for decades and continues to be the best selling .22lr on the market and has the most aftermarket accessories so don't discount it either.

    Generally you fit it, sight it in and leave it. It's a royal pain in the *** to swap scopes around and re-zero them (not imposible but time consuming and unecessary.) Each time you remove a scope from a gun even with quick detach rings, when you put it back on the poi (point of impact) shifts (not as much with the more expensive mounts, but it still moves.) This is inevitible even with the most expensive mounts and is impossible to avoid.
    As for buying cheap scopes and red dots, reference this thread and my comment towards the bottom.

    It's not necessary to spend an arm and a leg for a great "tactical scope. As Poseidon mentioned, the Bushnell Elite 3200 10X fixed power scope is an amazing option especially when on a budget. Here is a great review that's worth reading. Even better than the 3200 would be the 4200. Other scopes worth mentioning would be the SWFA SS Scopes. They are made to SWFA's specifications and are meant to be more economical/not cheap quality matches to the more expensive Leupold's, Swarvoski's, Nightfore, etc... SWFA has a great selection of brands and the best prices (+ 110% lowest price gurantee, they'll beat any price.)
    I suggest doing some researcg on scopes on the following sites
    SnipersHide I especially recommend this site, it has a great community and it's where I go for all my needs.
    OpticsTalk
    SniperCentral
     
  9. 8ball29

    8ball29 Oregon Coast Member

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    Lapping scope rings is the process of grinding off any uneven surfaces and burrs on the inside of scope rings. This reduces the chance that your scope gets scraped and dented and allows for more of the ring surface to come into contact with the scope, allowing less movement and thus improving accuracy.
    This isn't important or even necessary for the casual shooter or even hunting but it makes a difference when your shooting at extreme distances. Plus the people who are dropping big bucks on these scopes like to keep them pristine a scratch free.
    Scope Ring Lapping
    How to Lap Scope Rings
     
  10. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    With optics, here's a good rule to live by:

    Buy a gun for your scope.
     
  11. 8ball29

    8ball29 Oregon Coast Member

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    Wise words of wisdom...Adhere to them!
     
  12. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't know very much at all about scopes and I have no reason to doubt anything that you said isn't true. However, I've been watching the Magpul Precision Shooting DVD and one of the things they did was to zero their optics then take them off and pass it to the next guy over. The point was that you could do this and if you knew what you were doing and plugged in the right numbers you could get back on target even at 500 yards in a shot or two.
     
  13. 8ball29

    8ball29 Oregon Coast Member

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    @Kevtac That is completely true. My point was simply that no matter what, there will be some shift (more so with cheap mounts.) The more expensive mounts usually have a guaranteed repeat-ability of .5 MOA or 1/2 inch at a 100 yards and 2.5 inches at 500 yards. With such a minor shift in POI you could easily be back on target with a click or two. The mounting system is very crucial and the cheaper ones usually have more slop (Movement forward or Backwards and Left or Right) and don't mount to the same exact area of a 1913 picatinny rail on your rifle. This causes more shift in the POA/POI and further complicates the process of re-zeroing.