MO Duck boat

[EPS]

We worked surveying the wreck of the Triple Crown off Summerland. It had gone down decades before but had 500,000 of new anchor chain that a company wanted to recover. It went down on the first job it did (was a brand new boat) she is an anchor handling Boston built to handle the anchor systems for large floating oil platforms. She had 8 (?) chain lockers that huge stud link chain was stored in as it was deployed and retrieved from the anchoring of the platform. I think she was something like 160 feet long. They were picking the last chain and anchor (so we're heavy) when the winch operator got rough pulling it up too fast. The starboard corner of the boat was pulled underwater, not a big deal except the deck hatches to the engine room were wide open because of the warm night they were working. It immediately flooded and went down on the stern. I think one guy died.....we didn't raise the chain because it came from before the time chain certifications were required and had only scrap value in today's world. I interviewed the captain that was on board that night and several crew members in the process of the study. The winch operator went down with the boat and was recovered the next day as I remember. Everyone else was quickly picked up by other boats in the operation or swam to the Rincon Nude beach. The boat sits upright in over 100 feet of water.......the project still interests me but there isn't enough money there to support the work required.

They still have that Rincon oil platform or pier there I have friends that go down there and fish around there .the pier is closed to the public like it always was but he takes his boat out around there

 

[EPS]

I haven't been back to that area for over 20 years

 

[albin25]

Often in a very bad blow, a decision to turn-tail and head for shallow water can be fatal for a couple of reasons;
- as the water becomes shallower near shore, the waves become higher on a windward shore.
- a boat needs headway to steer and if it's speed is inadequate for a following sea/current, it will become unable to turn quickly (if at all). Maneuvering to save the vessel can be completely lost.
- the quickest route to shore can force the boat to take waves from an angle that puts the vessel in severe danger of being broached or pooped. Bow to the waves, even a vessel of that type can take very heavy weather. For the inexperienced and/under trained the urge to make a panicky run to "safety" can be very powerful.

Are those duck tours using trained certified captains and trained crew as a boat/ship? or, are they operated as a bus with a driver and waiters? I imagine it wouldn't be easy to find someone certified as both for the wages they're probably offering.

Panicky crew creates panicky passengers, panic is deadly

 

[Argonaut]

Often in a very bad blow, a decision to turn-tail and head for shallow water can be fatal for a couple of reasons;
- as the water becomes shallower near shore, the waves become higher on a windward shore.
- a boat needs headway to steer and if it's speed is inadequate for a following sea/current, it will become unable to turn quickly (if at all). Maneuvering to save the vessel can be completely lost.
- the quickest route to shore can force the boat to take waves from an angle that puts the vessel in severe danger of being broached. Bow to the waves, even a vessel of that type can take very heavy weather. For the inexperienced and/under trained the urge to make a panicky run to "safety" can be very powerful.

Are those duck tours using trained certified captains and trained crew as a boat/ship? or, are they operated as a bus with a driver and waiters? I imagine it wouldn't be easy to find someone certified as both for the wages they're probably offering.

They have the proper USCG and Commercial drivers licenses.........but probably not that much experiance. Licenses don't make you smart or give you experiance.

 

[EPS]

Often in a very bad blow, a decision to turn-tail and head for shallow water can be fatal for a couple of reasons;
- as the water becomes shallower near shore, the waves become higher on a windward shore.
- a boat needs headway to steer and if it's speed is inadequate for a following sea/current, it will become unable to turn quickly (if at all). Maneuvering to save the vessel can be completely lost.
- the quickest route to shore can force the boat to take waves from an angle that puts the vessel in severe danger of being broached. Bow to the waves, even a vessel of that type can take very heavy weather. For the inexperienced and/under trained the urge to make a panicky run to "safety" can be very powerful.

Are those duck tours using trained certified captains and trained crew as a boat/ship? or, are they operated as a bus with a driver and waiters? I imagine it wouldn't be easy to find someone certified as both for the wages they're probably offering.

They were on a lake so tides and that don't really come into play even the ones in Seattle only go on lake Union .so there really not in the sound but if the wind is blowing any body of water can be dangerous .

 

[DirectDrive]

Often in a very bad blow, a decision to turn-tail and head for shallow water can be fatal for a couple of reasons;
- as the water becomes shallower near shore, the waves become higher on a windward shore.
- a boat needs headway to steer and if it's speed is inadequate for a following sea/current, it will become unable to turn quickly (if at all). Maneuvering to save the vessel can be completely lost.
- the quickest route to shore can force the boat to take waves from an angle that puts the vessel in severe danger of being broached or pooped. Bow to the waves, even a vessel of that type can take very heavy weather. For the inexperienced and/under trained the urge to make a panicky run to "safety" can be very powerful.

Are those duck tours using trained certified captains and trained crew as a boat/ship? or, are they operated as a bus with a driver and waiters? I imagine it wouldn't be easy to find someone certified as both for the wages they're probably offering.

Panicky crew creates panicky passengers, panic is deadly

I disagree with most of this unless we're talking about a light, flimsy craft which we are not.
Staying in deep water, trying to get to his normal landing proved fatal here.
It's entirely possible that if he headed for the nearest dock or nearest piece of land that he could have saved lives.

And that DUKW is designed to do such a maneuver.
Instead he drove it into its weakness instead of its strength.
Lack of training.

 

[osprey]

All watercraft with paying passengers require merchant marine credentials for the captain. Being it carries more than 6 people a master license for an inspected passenger vessel would be required. So, I would guess the captain had training. Having taken this training I can tell you what it doesn't teach is common sense. Having never operated an amphibious, I can't really comment on their seaworthiness. However they appear to have limited freeboard and look like they could easily ship water in taller short interval seas. Sad story for all involved.

 

[DirectDrive]

He didn't have emergency training.
The video and the field reports confirm that.
More of a carnival ride operator, IMO.

1) Failed to heed weather warnings
2) Failed to have passengers don PFD's
3) Failed to seek shelter at first sign of rough seas
4) Robotically tried to return to his normal landing in spite of the very rough seas.

 

[nwslopoke]

I've seen these vessels in many places but they've never interested me. My daughter would get upset because, of course they look fun to a kid but I'm just not a fan of dual use vehicles (Outside of the KLR 650). I get these Ducks were brought to make a profit but I don't get using 1930s technology in 2018 where so much new tech off the shelf is available.

Here are some less than pleasant ferry rides. Off topic but once you are committed what can you do?

 

[Argonaut]

All watercraft with paying passengers require merchant marine credentials for the captain. Being it carries more than 6 people a master license for an inspected passenger vessel would be required. So, I would guess the captain had training. Having taken this training I can tell you what it doesn't teach is common sense. Having never operated an amphibious, I can't really comment on their seaworthiness. However they appear to have limited freeboard and look like they could easily ship water in taller short interval seas. Sad story for all involved.

They have 4-5 feet of freeboard with dry bilges, These guys have both Coast Guard and Bus driver's licenses as do the vehicles, as both a boat and a bus. Even cargo vessels require licenced captians, we were exempt in the work boat busisness as long as we were moving cargo incident to a job we were doing and were under 300 net tons. My 118' LCU's we're documented at 99 net but we would load 300 tons on deck when needed. The admeasure system Defining ship tonnage is pure witchcraft.

 

[Mikej]

As I'm reading this and looking at the responses, some opinions come to mind. As a kid living in the Salt lake Valley we'd take trips to the Great Salt Lake. It was a disgusting place, pile of dead brine flys and brine shrimp to walk through to get to the water. At the time pretty popular. you could float clear accross the lake because of the salt. They had "The Sea Monster". This would be in the early '60s. It was an amphibious X-military vehicle. It didn't last too long in the salt water. Had a neighbor a few years ago had a duck boat. I was talking to him and looking at it. They were having an issue changing the oil. Turned out I had a wobbly socket that fit the bill. I was up in it with all the flooring removed and it's innards visible. He got rid of it, for all I know it was the one in Seattle that the wheel parts broke and killed those people on the bridge.

My opinion is....Use a damned bus to take people around to see the crap. Or use a damned real boat. Something with some stability and flotation. Something made just for the water. Not both water and land. People getting their jollies by driving from land into the water, and back out to land again, has now killed too many people.

 

[John Brown]

They were told not to have the exhaust pipe at the front of the boat, because water could go in and drown out the engine. They never changed it. All these "Duck Boat" companies need to just go away. Making military craft into civilian money machines is garbage. Even the Seafair Pirates quit using their "duck" on water, many years ago. They now land at Alki Beach with the help of the Navy.

 

[Argonaut]

They were told not to have the exhaust pipe at the front of the boat, because water could go in and drown out the engine. They never changed it. All these "Duck Boat" companies need to just go away. Making military craft into civilian money machines is garbage. Even the Seafair Pirates quit using their "duck" on water, many years ago. They now land at Alki Beach with the help of the Navy.

That would be relevant if the boat had lost power.......but it seems to be making way just before going down. I am sure the exhausts have provisions like exhaust risers to prevent most water incursions into the engine through the exhaust. You can't belive everything you see on the news or net, they just want a story to sell reguardless of the truth.

 

[albin25]

so just what do you disagree with?
- Waves become higher as the water becomes shallower?
- Boats need headway to steer?
- taking the wrong direction to shore can put the boat at a bad angle to weather?
- perhaps you believe 6-8 foot waves are less dangerous on a lake? (circumstances show otherwise)

This boat's landing area was a shallow shore not a dock, boat may not have even had adequate dock-lines, fenders, or able hands to prevent a severe collision....(and he didn't start the cruise with a drive off a dock in Dukes of Hazard jump). Ducks in these uses probably aren't setup for docking even in good conditions, this one may have actually never ever even been docked since the cruise company bought it.

Possible equipment changes to prevent (but won't eliminate) future problems;
removable canvas tops, windows that slide to open, inflatable emergency sponsons.



A big take-away from this tragedy is other boats made it back and this one didn't, the probabilities of failure lay with crew failure, crew/mechanical failure, mechanical failure. I'm just saying that I'm leaning toward crew failure.

But, really who the heck knows... I sure don't.
Just being glad I get to opine and not mourn family or friends.

 

[John Brown]

That would be relevant if the boat had lost power.......but it seems to be making way just before going down. I am sure the exhausts have provisions like exhaust risers to prevent most water incursions into the engine through the exhaust. You can't belive everything you see on the news or net, they just want a story to sell reguardless of the truth.

It proves a lack of consideration for safety in general, when you ignore a warning.

 

[Argonaut]

As I'm reading this and looking at the responses, some opinions come to mind. As a kid living in the Salt lake Valley we'd take trips to the Great Salt Lake. It was a disgusting place, pile of dead brine flys and brine shrimp to walk through to get to the water. At the time pretty popular. you could float clear accross the lake because of the salt. They had "The Sea Monster". This would be in the early '60s. It was an amphibious X-military vehicle. It didn't last too long in the salt water. Had a neighbor a few years ago had a duck boat. I was talking to him and looking at it. They were having an issue changing the oil. Turned out I had a wobbly socket that fit the bill. I was up in it with all the flooring removed and it's innards visible. He got rid of it, for all I know it was the one in Seattle that the wheel parts broke and killed those people on the bridge.

My opinion is....Use a damned bus to take people around to see the crap. Or use a damned real boat. Something with some stability and flotation. Something made just for the water. Not both water and land. People getting their jollies by driving from land into the water, and back out to land again, has now killed too many people.

all these are is a sea going GMC Duce and a half, same engine, axles ect with an extra transfer case to drive the propeller and a rudder for steering on the water. Not terribly complicated. Hull inspections are very easy by simply looking at it when out of the water. They were built by the thousands and used until being replaced by the LARC series of anfibious vehicles that had tighter hulls and wider beams with diesel power. I bought one from the US Corps of Engineer's they had in active use since the 50's without any trouble. I have photos of the USCG actually using these as rescue vehicles.

 

[Argonaut]

It proves a lack of consideration for safety in general, when you ignore a warning.

We all ignore warnings every day.........shooting and driving are both more dangerous than riding a duck boat, doesn't stop us from partaking in those activities. The guy that said that was not a marine engineer, (I actually am as is the guy that designed it) and the USCG didn't see it as a problem certifying the boats over and over for passenger service. What will come down is they are unsuited for operation in sea states as high as it experienced. It is like these mostly phony (sorry Bill) house inspectors, they constantly write stuff up they have no idea about........then the call my wife (a real engineer) and she educates them.

 

[John Brown]

We all ignore warnings every day.........shooting and driving are both more dangerous than riding a duck boat, doesn't stop us from partaking in those activities. The guy that said that was not a marine engineer, (I actually am as is the guy that designed it) and the USCG didn't see it as a problem certifying the boats over and over for passenger service. What will come down is they are unsuited for operation in sea states as high as it experienced. It is like these mostly phony (sorry Bill) house inspectors, they constantly write stuff up they have no idea about........then the call my wife (a real engineer) and she educates them.

EXCEPT for one thing. Money is involved. You pay for a ticket with a reasonable expectation of getting back safely.

 

[Argonaut]

EXCEPT for one thing. Money is involved. You pay for a ticket with a reasonable expectation of getting back safely.

And how is that different than buying a car..........the company will pay, there insurance has to be more than adaquate to cover whatever the court orders. It is a tragedy like aircraft crashes, bus crashes and carriage crashes in the old days with a run away horse. Humans are fragile creatures and subject to many ways to die. Even hiding under your blankets in bed at home is no guarantee that you won't be effected by disaster. Weather, poor training, will be the causes here. Different equipment might have helped but the design and operation passed all government standards and inspections.....so is money the evil culprit here or the human desire to have a good time and party.....that is what drove the people to get on the boat.

 

[John Brown]

Jeezuz....