Meteor 12ga - Belgium double

[Knute]

Just picked up a great old wall hanger Meteor 12ga, "Belgium Laminated Steel," side by side. I have no history to share and I'm trying to find out more about it. I've run some searches on the company and Belgium doubles but almost nothing. Do you have any information about this Belgium?

The pics of the proof marks are the best I could do...thank you in advance:

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[tac]

At one time there were around a thousand, maybe more, 'Ateliers' - workshops - in Liége, the gun-making capital of Belgium and still the home of Fabrique Nationale [FN] and a few other high-grade gun makers.

The chances of finding out much more about your fin-de-siécle [19thC] SxS are passing rare. I'll do a bit of digging for you in my old Sears, Roebuck catalogues, but you won't get rich if you are minded to selling it - they cost, originally, anything from around $5 way up to as much as $10.

The ELG over crown dates it after 1854, and the 18,2 is the bore in mm - 12g, as you note. Any chance of all the markings you've missed, and horizontally, please, to save me trying to angle my monitor?

To give you some idea of the prolific output of Belgian gunmakers, the Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Most of the Belgian guns imported before WWI were not of high quality when new, and NO vintage shotgun should be fired, with any load, until examined by a double gun specialist smith.

Belgian makers
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a% ... s%20gb.htm

Maker's marks
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/18490292

Belgian Trade names
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

Proof Marks - Poincons Officiels du Banc D'Epreuves de Liege
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/17575181

Final proof is the crowned ELG mark.
The Perron (tower) indicates provisional blackpowder proof even on guns later voluntary proved with smokeless powder; which are marked with a Lion over PV. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder.

The usual c. 1900 Belgian 12 gauge bore would be 18.4 mm = .724"
Conversion table - 1 millimeter = 0.0393700787 inches
http://www.convertunits.com/from/mm/to/inches

Date of Manufacture
NON POUR BALLE - choked unrifled bores used 1878 - 1897
1898 - 1910 – Bore in mm (22 cm from breech) and muzzle (choke constriction) appear next to each other after 'choke'
1910 – 1924 – Bore in mm is over muzzle dimension

 

[Knute]

At one time there were around a thousand, maybe more, 'Ateliers' - workshops - in Liége, the gun-making capital of Belgium and still the home of Fabrique Nationale [FN] and a few other high-grade gun makers.

The chances of finding out much more about your fin-de-siécle [19thC] SxS are passing rare. I'll do a bit of digging for you in my old Sears, Roebuck catalogues, but you won't get rich if you are minded to selling it - they cost, originally, anything from around $5 way up to as much as $10.

The ELG over crown dates it after 1854, and the 18,2 is the bore in mm - 12g, as you note. Any chance of all the markings you've missed, and horizontally, please, to save me trying to angle my monitor?

Excellent...thank you for the bit of history

 

[tac]

De nada, Signore..............

 

[ilikegunspdx]

interesting gun. Do u know what Belgian laminated steel is? Is that Belgium-speak for damascus?

 

[Knute]

interesting gun. Do u know what Belgian laminated steel is? Is that Belgium-speak for damascus?

Not sure what the laminated means. Copeland Gunworks checked this one out and called them steel, and that these rang just fine when he checked the barrels.

Copeland said they're not Damascus and he even shot the gun

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I googled it and found this. Has some sections on laminated steel. Also sections on identifying Belgian shotguns. I couldn't be bothered to read either but there is a ton of info here.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

docs.google.com

 

[tac]

interesting gun. Do u know what Belgian laminated steel is? Is that Belgium-speak for damascus?

In Belgium, where Liége is situated, they speak Wallonie, a more-or-less French. The rest of Belgium, up against The Netherlands and Germany, speaks Flemish, more-or-less Dutch.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Some day I will have to figure out the various metals used for barrels. I recall reading that Belgium lead the world for Damascus made barrels (I assume that means quality not just quantity but I don't know).

I've been researching German made barrels from Damascus to "fluid steel" a bit. It seems Prussia lead the world for quality of firearms in the period pre WW1 primarily due to individual craftsmen making the gun but also due to the houses that made the barrels. Interesting stuff. Love these old shotguns. Shot my first jp Sauer one the other day (post ww2) and it's a blast. Wood quality suffers in this period from what I can tell but craftsmanship is still top notch.

 

[tac]

Let us agree that barrels are not made from 'Damascus', but that the method of making them gives them the appearance of being made from Damasque - a decorative form of fine silk fabric with a multiple weave that 'corruscates' upon the eye, originating in Damascus. In other words, so-called Damascus steel has the appearance of this material with its multiple swirls. It can also be formed, during the forging process, into making its own internal pattern, adding to the intrinsic beauty of the either the blade or the barrel - this is known as 'pattern-welding'.

This is a Damascus blade -



This is pattern-welding -



Now, back to shotguns................................

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Let us agree that barrels are not made from 'Damascus', but that the method of making them gives them the appearance of being made from Damasque - a decorative form of fine silk fabric with a multiple weave that 'corruscates' upon the eye, originating in Damascus. In other words, so-called Damascus steel has the appearance of this material with its multiple swirls. It can also be formed, during the forging process, into making its own internal pattern, adding to the intrinsic beauty of the either the blade or the barrel - this is known as 'pattern-welding'.

This is a Damascus blade -

View attachment 785982

This is pattern-welding -

View attachment 785983

Now, back to shotguns................................

Sorry I should have been more clear when I said "made from Damascus to fluid steel" I was referring to the time period when Damascus barrels were made, transitioning to the time period where "fluid steel" was used. u could throw the words "predominantly used" in there of course for the time periods as it's not a stop-start transition. In Germany 1912 is when they first required "nitro" proofs for barrels for smokeless powder although the proof marks (nitro or eagle over N) were voluntary before then.

 

[tac]

The revised all-German Proof Acts were enacted in 1891 and into force in 1892. Prior to that, each state of the recently federated Germany, which was not previously unified, had its own state proof house. Most of these simply carried on, but under new national standards and markings. During the period 1931 - 45, nazi Germany had its own marks, based on the various Waffenampte - Firearms Authorising authorities, which are not moot here.

Belgian proof marks were amended accordingly, to show compliance with their neighbours in Germany.