National Lying to buy a gun? Don’t worry about the feds.

[Joe Link]

Perspective | Lying to buy a gun? Don't worry about the feds.

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[billdeserthills]

I honestly think the feds purposely allow criminals to try to buy guns because they know damn well that occasionally these criminals manage to score a gun or two and then use those guns to kill--after which, guns can be villified in order to purposely bring about the destruction of our 2nd amendment rights

 

[ma96782]

Not to mention those who use MJ.

More on that here: ATF doubles down on marijuana gun ban, adds warning to firearm purchase form

The ATF released an open letter in 2011 to provide guidance to its licensees that were seeing an increased number of customer questions about the ban.

"Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medical purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law," the letter read. "Therefore, any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legalization authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition."

Aloha, Mark

 

[Keepmsharp]

The right of the people to own and bear arms shall not be infringed. Government doesn't even have authority to make gun laws. Every single one is unconstitutional.

 

[jim97701]

Can't read the story linked unless you pay them to subscribe

 

[Flymph]

Should we enforce existing laws, or what is the point of having them?

 

[The Heretic]

It comes down to how agents and prosecutors/et. al. want to spend their time and effort.

At the federal level, most LEOs/etc. do not want to spend their time with two bit criminals - they want the big splash criminals that make headlines and careers.

It really is as simple as that IMO (and experience as a federal LEO).

 

[WALawyer]

Most people don't mean to lie; they either forget or were not informed of the firearm prohibition, or didn't understand the consequences of their conviction correctly. It would be shortsighted for federal LEOs to prioritize prosecuting some schmuck that inadvertently lied on the 4473 over someone who is an actual danger to the community by running guns or drugs.

It's ironic that this message board community is concerned about this lack of prosecution, because if the posted article were instead titled "Feds prosecute thousands of people inadvertently lying on the 4473 form," this community would be even more outraged.

 

[slimmer13]

Most people don't mean to lie; they either forget or were not informed of the firearm prohibition, or didn't understand the consequences of their conviction correctly. It would be shortsighted for federal LEOs to prioritize prosecuting some schmuck that inadvertently lied on the 4473 over someone who is an actual danger to the community by running guns or drugs.

It's ironic that this message board community is concerned about this lack of prosecution, because if the posted article were instead titled "Feds prosecute thousands of people inadvertently lying on the 4473 form," this community would be even more outraged.

I think the it's just resentment of the hypocrisy of the gun grabbers who wish to impose more and more restrictions, while current ones go unenforced.

 

[Jonnyuma]

I think the it's just resentment of the hypocrisy of the gun grabbers who wish to impose more and more restrictions, while current ones go unenforced.

That's pretty much it.

 

[turbo_vanner]

it is entirely possible to quit smoking weed the day before you purchase a gun, truthfully say you don't use drugs when you do the paperwork, then start back up a day after.

Or lie, either way, nobody is going to check.

 

[titsonritz]

I honestly think the feds purposely allow criminals to try to buy guns because they know damn well that occasionally these criminals manage to score a gun or two and then use those guns to kill--after which, guns can be villified in order to purposely bring about the destruction of our 2nd amendment rights

Are you kidding? They straight up perpetrated it. Fast and furious, proof.

 

[billdeserthills]

Most people don't mean to lie; they either forget or were not informed of the firearm prohibition, or didn't understand the consequences of their conviction correctly. It would be shortsighted for federal LEOs to prioritize prosecuting some schmuck that inadvertently lied on the 4473 over someone who is an actual danger to the community by running guns or drugs.

It's ironic that this message board community is concerned about this lack of prosecution, because if the posted article were instead titled "Feds prosecute thousands of people inadvertently lying on the 4473 form," this community would be even more outraged.

You seem to have missed the point--we want the criminals who know they are not allowed to purchase a gun to be rounded up for attempting to

 

[WALawyer]

I think the it's just resentment of the hypocrisy of the gun grabbers who wish to impose more and more restrictions, while current ones go unenforced.

I suppose that's fair.

it is entirely possible to quit smoking weed the day before you purchase a gun, truthfully say you don't use drugs when you do the paperwork, then start back up a day after.

Or lie, either way, nobody is going to check.

Not technically true. 27 C.F.R. 478.11 defines unlawful user of a controlled substance as: "A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm."

It's also not completely true that nobody will check. If NICS sees a recent drug or paraphernalia-related arrest, or even a DUI arrest that is related to marijuana or some other controlled substance other than alcohol, NICS will investigate and possibly deny on this basis.

 

[WALawyer]

You seem to have missed the point--we want the criminals who know they are not allowed to purchase a gun to be rounded up for attempting to

That's fair, but my point is that a lot of these criminals are not intentionally or knowingly lying on the form and part of prosecuting them is proving knowledge. I think many would agree that the forms are confusing as hell and often serve as bait for the unwary. So most prosecutorial resources would ultimately be misdirected. Hell, there are people on this very forum that post about having been erroneously denied all the time.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Not technically true. 27 C.F.R. 478.11 defines unlawful user of a controlled substance as: "A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm."

It's also not completely true that nobody will check. If NICS sees a recent drug or paraphernalia-related arrest, or even a DUI arrest that is related to marijuana or some other controlled substance other than alcohol, NICS will investigate and possibly deny on this basis.

Interesting, I wonder how long one would have to quit in order to legally be a non-user. I mean, if someone quit for a week, wouldn't that show they have not lost the power of self-control?

 

[billdeserthills]

That's fair, but my point is that a lot of these criminals are not intentionally or knowingly lying on the form and part of prosecuting them is proving knowledge. I think many would agree that the forms are confusing as hell and often serve as bait for the unwary. So most prosecutorial resources would ultimately be misdirected. Hell, there are people on this very forum that post about having been erroneously denied all the time.

Tell that to Sacramento-- they trace ownership back to all ammo & bullet purchases--They arrested over 200 ex-felons 2016-2017 and most of that was due to tracing the ammo log