LV PD sure screwed up today...

[Riot]

One person's account. Eye witness testimony has proven to be some of the worst. Take that for what you will since I agree with 95% of the stuff you post up here.

Suggesting harassing officers and their families definitely crosses the line and that poster deserves further scrutiny.

I remember when an "eye witess" stated that the DC sniper was in a white van...everyone want's their 10 minutes of fame.

Nevertheless, there is a lot of information that is conflicting and missing.


I'll hold judgment until the video comes out.

 

[capdek]

After many police shootings, the evidence is pretty clear: 'unofficial' police policy is that each and every officer must go home at the end of their shift. And if that means an 'innocent' civilian is accidentally shot and killed once in a while, then that's the price that must be paid to ensure officers get to go home at the end of their shift.

Edit:
By 'innocent' civilian, I mean a case where a preponderance of the evidence suggests that neither the police nor other civilians were in immediate threat of grave bodily harm from the civilian in question. For example, depending on whether or not the individual in this story actually drew his weapon with apparent intent to use deadly force against the police or others would determine whether or not he was an 'innocent' civilian.

In the very rare cases where this unofficial policy does result in an innocent civilian being accidentally shot and killed by police, the first response will be to see if it can be covered-up or white-washed somehow. After all, the police do have an obligation to city government to ensure that trust in law enforcement be maintained in the community. If the incident can't be covered-up or white-washed somehow, the response will be to cite errors in communications and/or procedures, have the chief of police promise to re-evaluate and improve police policies, procedures and training, then have the city pay a large sum of money to the relatives of the innocent civilian without officially admitting any wrong-doing on the part of police.

In the vast percentage of cases, this policy works in that a bad guy is taken out and the good guys get to go home to their families. But every once in a while, the policy 'fails' in that an innocent civilian gets killed, and the police have to jump through the aforementioned hoops to deal with it. But at the end of the day, make no mistake - all the necessary steps will be taken to ensure each and every police officer goes home at the end of their shift.

When you CC, you take the risk that you will end up being one the rare cases of an innocent civilian accidentally killed by police in the pursuit of this unofficial policy.

And whether or not you agree with this unofficial policy, that is the reality of the situation, and it will remain so for the indefinite future.

Edit:
There is one case that comes to mind where police killed a person that was not an immediate threat to police officers directly, but potentially to other civilians, and that is the case of Lukas Glenn. He was the Tigard High student who was shot and killed by Washington County deputies after turning towards the entrance of his home while holding a small knife. I won't relate the entire story - it can be looked-up quite easily. There is little doubt he was not an immediate threat to the lives of officers, but was potentially a threat to others. This would be a case where police may have genuinely been acting to preserve the lives of others rather than just the lives of police officers themselves.

 

[Wheeler44]

OK I'll bite...

getting fired after a bad shoot is the least of any LEOs concerns if they are involved in a bad shoot, also add trying to cover it up.

What is their greatest concern?

W44

 

[Outrider]

OK I'll bite...What is their greatest concern?

W44

A good shoot and you're a hero. A bad shoot and not only may you lose your job, but there's a real possibility of getting locked up and going to prison.

It's just a guess, but going to prison for a bad shoot has got to be a major concern plus any feelings of guilt that the person may have.

The last time I heard of a LEO in NV going to prison for improper conduct on the job was several years ago. A Nevada Highway Patrol trooper was racing home in a patrol vehicle. It was at night. He was traveling at a high speed (over 100 MPH) without lights and sirens and crashed into a slow moving vehicle that was unfortunately in the fast lane. Four people were killed.

He was sentenced to 12 years for involuntary manslaughter but I believe he was eligible for parole after two years. I can't remember all the details but that's certainly not what he thought he'd be looking at when he joined NHP.

 

[HalfNutz]

.....

So? There are also a lot of police officers willing to lie to make themselves look good. A dozen or two shoppers with a wide spectrum of attitudes toward the police, in aggregate, will be more truthful than three cops trying to avoid going to prison for manslaughter. The witnesses have no major incentive to lie, while the officers have every incentive. The shoppers will all have slightly different stories that will converge on the truth, while the officers will be able to get their stories straight before giving statements to the investigators - are other potential defendants in criminal investigations afforded this opportunity? I think not.

wannabe lawyer?

 

[HalfNutz]

I don't think we need to worry about cops not getting the same rights as everybody else until that actually happens.

As it is, they get far more rights than everyone else - because of apologists like you. There's nothing wrong with supporting the police, but it is not a neutral position. Given the great leeway officers have in our current system, it's disingenuous to suggest that they somehow need to defend themselves against an onslaught of angry citizens.

wannabe defense attorney?

 

[HalfNutz]

After many police shootings, the evidence is pretty clear: 'unofficial' police policy is that each and every officer must go home at the end of their shift. And if that means an 'innocent' civilian is accidentally shot and killed once in a while, then that's the price that must be paid to ensure officers get to go home at the end of their shift.

Edit:
By 'innocent' civilian, I mean a case where a preponderance of the evidence suggests that neither the police nor other civilians were in immediate threat of grave bodily harm from the civilian in question. For example, depending on whether or not the individual in this story actually drew his weapon with apparent intent to use deadly force against the police or others would determine whether or not he was an 'innocent' civilian.

In the very rare cases where this unofficial policy does result in an innocent civilian being accidentally shot and killed by police, the first response will be to see if it can be covered-up or white-washed somehow. After all, the police do have an obligation to city government to ensure that trust in law enforcement be maintained in the community. If the incident can't be covered-up or white-washed somehow, the response will be to cite errors in communications and/or procedures, have the chief of police promise to re-evaluate and improve police policies, procedures and training, then have the city pay a large sum of money to the relatives of the innocent civilian without officially admitting any wrong-doing on the part of police.

In the vast percentage of cases, this policy works in that a bad guy is taken out and the good guys get to go home to their families. But every once in a while, the policy 'fails' in that an innocent civilian gets killed, and the police have to jump through the aforementioned hoops to deal with it. But at the end of the day, make no mistake - all the necessary steps will be taken to ensure each and every police officer goes home at the end of their shift.

When you CC, you take the risk that you will end up being one the rare cases of an innocent civilian accidentally killed by police in the pursuit of this unofficial policy.

And whether or not you agree with this unofficial policy, that is the reality of the situation, and it will remain so for the indefinite future.

Edit:
There is one case that comes to mind where police killed a person that was not an immediate threat to police officers directly, but potentially to other civilians, and that is the case of Lukas Glenn. He was the Tigard High student who was shot and killed by Washington County deputies after turning towards the entrance of his home while holding a small knife. I won't relate the entire story - it can be looked-up quite easily. There is little doubt he was not an immediate threat to the lives of officers, but was potentially a threat to others. This would be a case where police may have genuinely been acting to preserve the lives of others rather than just the lives of police officers themselves.

Rilly? For rills? Kill somebody and go home for supper w/o any questions or statements?

 

[Trlsmn]

wannabe lawyer?

As a matter of fact ZackS is a law student. I on the other hand made no speculation as to guilt or innocence, or is it the fact that I'm willing to hear everything that is being said and not burying my head in the sand and just hearing the parts that would support a bias that bothers you? because I've seen nothing I would call critical thinking in any of your responses to this matter.

I suggest you look up the concepts of Objective and Subjective and decide which road you have been taking and which you are accusing others of taking.

 

[HalfNutz]

As a matter of fact ZackS is a law student. I on the other hand made no speculation as to guilt or innocence, or is it the fact that I'm willing to hear everything that is being said and not burying my head in the sand and just hearing the parts that would support a bias that bothers you? because I've seen nothing I would call critical thinking in any of your responses to this matter.

I suggest you look up the concepts of Objective and Subjective and decide which road you have been taking and which you are accusing others of taking.

I've seen a lot of subjective pontification. I prefer to see the facts and not armchair quarterbacking from law students. I've several childhood friends that are criminal defense attorneys who's opinions I rely upon rather than some idealist just going through law school.

Edit: There are more kids in law school than there are practicing attorneys in the U.S. You feel me?

In short, I'm objective and cynical, but some law-school attendee doesn't cut the mustard with regards to experience or expertise.... Just a kid in school. When he starts practicing law, I'll lay more credence upon his opinion. Fair enough?

 

[Trlsmn]

I've seen a lot of subjective pontification. I prefer to see the facts and not armchair quarterbacking from law students. I've several childhood friends that are criminal defense attorneys who's opinions I rely upon rather than some idealist just going through law school.

Edit: There are more kids in law school than there are practicing attorneys in the U.S. You feel me?

In short, I'm objective and cynical, but some law-school attendee doesn't cut the mustard with regards to experience or expertise.... Just a kid in school. When he starts practicing law, I'll lay more credence upon his opinion. Fair enough?

You said it, now back those words up and point out my biased pontification with some quotes of my biased opinion on this subject!

 

[HalfNutz]

You said it, now back those words up and point out my biased pontification with some quotes of my biased opinion on this subject!

I don't recall saying you are biased. I do recall saying that I agree with 95% of what you post. ??? My point in this rush to judgment against the po-po is to give them the benefit of the doubt... same as I'd give any other citizen.

With regards to the law-student, I'll place more emphasis on what opinions he has to offer legal-wise, once he's passed the bar and has a few years under his belt practicing law. Otherwise he's just another poster with an opinion. Being in school doesn't make one an expert, it makes one a student.

 

[Trlsmn]

I don't recall saying you are biased. I do recall saying that I agree with 95% of what you post. ??? My point in this rush to judgment against the po-po is to give them the benefit of the doubt... same as I'd give any other citizen.

With regards to the law-student, I'll place more emphasis on what opinions he has to offer legal-wise, once he's passed the bar and has a few years under his belt practicing law. Otherwise he's just another poster with an opinion. Being in school doesn't make one an expert, it makes one a student.

Well the reason I got huffy is you drug my quote in there with his so enough said.

Zack, as with most younger people, will grow out of that Idealism eventually.

As I like to say there are Realists and Idealists in this world, Realists also want the Ideal world, but they accept there is a reality of the world. Idealist's on the other hand will eventually become realists or be subject to ridicule by realists who eventually get to say "I told you so" when the world crushes their Idealism.

 

[HalfNutz]

Well the reason I got huffy is you drug my quote in there with his so enough said.

Zack, as with most younger people, will grow out of that Idealism eventually.

As I like to say there are Realists and Idealists in this world, Realists also want the Ideal world, but they accept there is a reality of the world. Idealist's on the other hand will eventually become realists or be subject to ridicule by realists who eventually get to say "I told you so" when the world crushes their Idealism.

Glad to see we're cool on this.

I hear you on realism vs.idealism.

 

[Trlsmn]

 

[ZachS]

I don't recall saying you are biased. I do recall saying that I agree with 95% of what you post. ??? My point in this rush to judgment against the po-po is to give them the benefit of the doubt... same as I'd give any other citizen.

With regards to the law-student, I'll place more emphasis on what opinions he has to offer legal-wise, once he's passed the bar and has a few years under his belt practicing law. Otherwise he's just another poster with an opinion. Being in school doesn't make one an expert, it makes one a student.

My opinion is that cops (like everybody else) have an incentive to lie in a situation where they may have done something illegal, and they have more of an incentive to lie about such a situation than randomly-chosen strangers.

This isn't a legal opinion

This isn't an idealistic opinion.

It's just my opinion.



I'd be interested to see some arguments from you about why this opinion - or anything else I've said in this thread - might be incorrect, and why your opinion is more accurate.

All I've seen from you so far is a bunch of petulant ad-hominem BS - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you can do at least a little bit better.

Zack, as with most younger people, will grow out of that Idealism eventually.

When do I get to stop being a "younger people?"

 

[HalfNutz]

My opinion is that cops (like everybody else) have an incentive to lie in a situation where they may have done something illegal, and they have more of an incentive to lie about such a situation than randomly-chosen strangers.

This isn't a legal opinion

This isn't an idealistic opinion.

It's just my opinion.



I'd be interested to see some arguments from you about why this opinion - or anything else I've said in this thread - might be incorrect, and why your opinion is more accurate.

All I've seen from you so far is a bunch of petulant ad-hominem BS - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you can do at least a little bit better.




When do I get to stop being a "younger people?"

I don't need to do any better. I'm doing just fine. You're painting with some pretty broad strokes. With age (usually) comes wisdom.

Petulant? No, I just prefer to give the benefit of the doubt... same as I'd like to receive in a similar situation. Your "the man is out to get us" mentality is a bit skewed from reality, IMO.

I had a couple of cop friends read your recent posts and they had a good chuckle. You can quit looking over your shoulder. They find you amusing but non-threatening.

 

[Trlsmn]

I don't need to do any better. I'm doing just fine. You're painting with some pretty broad strokes. With age (usually) comes wisdom.

Petulant? No, I just prefer to give the benefit of the doubt... same as I'd like to receive in a similar situation. Your "the man is out to get us" mentality is a bit skewed from reality, IMO.

I had a couple of cop friends read your recent posts and they had a good chuckle. You can quit looking over your shoulder. They find you amusing but non-threatening.

Since you mentioned reality I would say that Zack does have a real personal episode of police brutality of his own. In my opinion there is no better way to judge things than with hands on experience.

I've had two separate personal cases of out of control police actions taken outside of lawful and professional duty the to job. One of which I had every police car in North precinct rolling by my house every 5 minutes, literally like sharks swarming a kill, after they were told to leave my property and command told them to obey that request, this only stopped after I got out the video camera and sat on the porch and started filming. All this was over a police officers ignorance and being corrected on a traffic law and having to eat crow finding out I was correct. I don't judge all police by these actions but they have shown me that there are bad police officers and other police officers will cover for, and even escalate their bad behavior.

Regardless of this and another incident even more out of control and unprofessional I still am willing to hear the evidence to make the judgment, what I am not willing to do is assume that a police officer wouldn't lie to cover up their own screw up, it's human nature.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

You are not supposed to cross the solid white line when merging. Lots do, but it is illegal.


Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

Make sure you have your turn signal on when merging too - been pulled for that one. Like I could go anywhere else...

 

[Partsproduction]

I followed a thread in another forum on this, and slowly realized that any time I see a police officer I should seek any quick and legal way to get away from him, as many people have been shot without doing anything wrong. This guy came close to getting shot and did nothing wrong. HOME PAGE | KCCN.tv

 

[Father of four]

Great post Partsproduction. Be careful though. Post too much stuff like this will get you a reprimand from a Mod or worse.