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LV PD sure screwed up today...

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Gas, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Gas

    Gas Gig Harbor, Washington, United States Active Member

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  2. gnarkill

    gnarkill Richland, WA Member

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    Makes you wonder though, with all the people leaving how they knew it was him, and why would they have shot him. Did he draw his weapon on them, or was he merely removing it to set it down. Either way this was a concealed carry incident, and I imagine we'll start seeing more of these with all the open carry going on. The guy had accomplished, and probably made it through a whole heck of a lot in his life, only to have it ended by complete retardation..
  3. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    How do you know? Were you there? From what the story wrote (which is, guaranteed, not the entire story) they seemed justified. As for the relatively anonymous quotes and reactions, I give them less credence than the actual story.

    Why are you so quick to judge that the officer's involved were wrong?
  4. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    I agree with MountainBear on this. There just isn't enough information to make a judgement one way or the other on this yet.
  5. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    It doesn't look good for the LVPD, but I need to see some video before I take sides. The eye witness testimonies are very convincing but I know how difficult it is to remember everything 100% correct in a traumatic situation like that.
  6. matt_w

    matt_w Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Too early to know which side is right, but definitely an interesting story to keep your eyes on!
  7. A2theK

    A2theK Olympia Member

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    That's why I won't OC or let my CCW print...

    From the comments I can see from the "supposed" eyewitness it's a toss up between murder and oops I thought he had a gun.

    This is why I wear armor often. Let's just say they better shoot me in the head because that's were my return shots will be hitting anyone who draws or fires on me. A 7.62x25 will cut through a IIIA vest like butter too if needed to prevent yourself from being murdered.

    Think about this guy's girlfriend seeing him go down. Horrible

    I'd be cruising by those officers house later for sure to get some Albanian justice if I were her, but I'm not.


    Hey whatever happened to the SPD lady and guy who stomped that MexiMerican guy that was in the US Army?

    Oh yeah.... NOTHING I can see and everyone's over it.
  8. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    When was the last time the media spun a police shooting, right after it happened, like it was totally justified? That's right. It never does. The initial reports always describe police shootings as questionable. "Eyewitnesses" are notoriously unreliable and seldom saw what they think they saw. Additionally, those cops were looking for things John and Jane Public would not have seen. Did the guy who was shot have the intent to do harm to the police? Maybe not. But people who shut up and comply don't get shot. These shootings always start out "questionable" or "controversial," but only a handful of then ever really are.
  9. HalfNutz

    HalfNutz Kirkland (Juanita) Member

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    WTF? Are you a Blood or Crip Wannabe? Talk like that is pure BS/trash.:( Proponent of vigilante justice w/o any facts. Yeah, sounds like a gang-banger to me. I'm disgusted by your inappropriate, unsubstantiated comments.

    Cops do the best they can, and while they deserve scrutiny, they also deserve the benefit of the doubt. :thumbup:
  10. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Some do, some don't - just like members of any other profession.

    They deserve extra scrutiny because of the power they wield.

    Because they wear uniforms and badges and belong to unions that help them cover up their misdeeds?
  11. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I believe in not rushing to judgment but I also don't believe police should not be given any special consideration over and above the average citizen, that's BS.
  12. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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  13. HalfNutz

    HalfNutz Kirkland (Juanita) Member

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    I stand by my original quote that states that vigilante justice, especially unsubstantiated, is criminal. You support what you want.
  14. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Good chance they won't even get fired.
  15. Demasoni

    Demasoni Eugene, Oregon Member

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  16. HalfNutz

    HalfNutz Kirkland (Juanita) Member

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    One person's account. Eye witness testimony has proven to be some of the worst. Take that for what you will since I agree with 95% of the stuff you post up here.

    Suggesting harassing officers and their families definitely crosses the line and that poster deserves further scrutiny.
  17. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

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    Actually it is LVMPD Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Dept not LVPD,it is a combined County Sheriff and City Police force. I lived in Vegas for 26 years born and raised there. Even did some training with Metro and was a Nevada POST certified peace officer and used to know and be friends with a lot of Metro officers, even a former Metro sheriff. I have gone on many ride-alongs with metro including on the police helicopter and we got to buzz my house and shine the spotlight on my wife. My sister's ex husband's brother in law even became the Sheriff after I moved up here. Vegas used to be a small town what can I say? My point is I am a little more familiar with Metro and their culture than most.

    Anyway I would like to see the video before passing judgment. I am generally very pro law enforcement but also know there are bad cops too unfortunately. It would be unfair to paint all cops with the same brushstroke. Looks like conflicting accounts and everybody can't be right.

    That being said I remember a childhood friend of my brother who was shot and killed by Metro about 25 years ago. Now this kid was no angel, he stole a Corvette from the Hilton Hotel valet parking and ended up going on a high speed chase and got stuck down a dead end alley. He was shot in the face at 7 yards with a shotgun, blew his face off, I even went to his funeral. He had his hands in the air according to the only other witness (the guy who was in the stolen car with him) It was ruled justified because the officer claimed he thought he had something in his hand. The only thing they found on him was a comb in his pocket. He was unarmed. Did he deserve to die, no probably not. Did his stupid reckless behavior get him killed, yes it did. Metro settled with the family. Vegas is not an easy place to be a cop. About the same size as Portland with 10 times the crime and murders. I would like to keep an open mind until all the facts are available.

    Honestly I think this Costco shooting could go either way, but I would be very surprised if anything happens to these officers, no matter what the truth is when the facts come out. Metro does tend to take care of their own. Regardless, the whole thing sounds like a senseless tragedy and the useless death of a veteran who served our country honorably, and this saddens me.

    If accounts of the officer's continuing to shoot once the threat was nuetralized and on the ground are true and no first aid was rendered CPR etc, then it would appeargrossly callous even if the initial shots could be excused by police mis-interpreting an armed man's actions as hostile. On the face of it it doesn't make a lot of sense for a WP graduate veteran with a CCW to give the police reaosn to shoot him. I hope someone on this thread follows up as the story evolves and keeps it up to date. I suspect there is a large cash settlement coming regardless for the family.

    Regardless if the cops end up being shown to be right or wrong in this case, there may be lessons for the rest of us about how not to get killed when interacting with the police as armed citizens. I was actually pulled over today by the state police, I was legally armed with my CHL. (My hands were kept in plain sight at all times and I was very polite, as was the officer. There were no issues. Apparently they frown on merging onto the freeway too early before the solid white line ends. Who knew? Made me late to 2 FTFs. Expensive lesson.)
  18. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    You are not supposed to cross the solid white line when merging. Lots do, but it is illegal.

    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    WAC member
    SWWAC member
  19. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Police and prosecutors are happy to ruin defendants' lives with eyewitness testimony from junkies and whores. I'll place a lot more trust in a big crowd of Costco shoppers.
  20. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    The video will tell the tale but right now one camp is that the guy was out of control, destroying packages, shoplifting, and carrying a gun and the other camp says the guy was trying to see what bottles would fit into a backpack in the camping goods section and had words with an employee over carrying concealed in the store.

    In the gun community there (I used to live in Vegas), it's a big deal over where you can and cannot carry with a permit. The stores have the right to say "No Weapons" but the signs have to be just a certain way (i.e. lettering has to be a certain height, signs have to be clearly visible, etc.) for you to violate them. Most of the times the signage isn't that way so the store is stuck with having to ask the person to leave if it has a "No Weapons" policy. If the person doesn't comply with the request to leave, he is a trespasser. -The obvious problem is when the police are called they're not told calmly that there's a person the store wishes to have removed for trespassing because he has a concealed weapon with permit on the premises. The police get the "Man with gun" call.

    There's a thread over on AR15.com that has a reported transcript of the radio traffic someone got with a scanner. I make no representation or judgment regarding the validity/accuracy of the transcript. -Going from memory the 400 codes mentioned in the call are:

    413 = "Person with gun"
    414A = Petty Larceny / Shoplifting (I'm not sure on this one)
    446 = "Narcotics"

    Dispatcher: Units in V3, a 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. The male is inside the business to the rear of, has a 413 that's tucked into the back of his pants. We're still landline. (6:53)

    K916: K916 back on channel. (7:03)

    D: K916 (7:04)

    AIR5: AIR5, we're going to go to the Costco first. (7:11)

    D: AIR5, copy. (7:14)

    2X12: 2X12 (7:20)

    D: 2X12 (7:21)

    2X12: You can disregard the air unit, I see customers coming out (related to a seperate 407A) (7:25)

    D: 2X12 copy. K914, if you could be en route with AIR5 on the 413 at Costco in V3, 801 S. Pavillion Center. (7:35)

    K916: K916, you can assign me as well. (7:42)

    D: K916, copy. (7:44)

    D: 2V16, if you'll also be en route on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. The male inside the business is acting erratic, throwing merchandise around, possibly high on unknown type of 446. (8:03)

    2V16: 2V16 copy, from the Suncoast. (8:07)

    D: 2V16, they are requesting CIT. Male is possibly ED. 767, did you copy? (8:16)

    767: Put me en route to that please. (8:19)

    D: 767. (8:21)

    2DP62: 2DP62, clear me and show me en route. (8:25)

    D: 2DP62. (8:26)

    767: 767 (8:37)

    D: 767. (8:38)

    767: Go ahead and have medical en route also, just to stand by for us. (8:41)

    D: 767, copy. (8:42)

    2V55: 2V55, can you clear me B-baker and show me en route to Costco. (8:53)

    D: 2V55, affirmative. (8:56)

    2V16: 2V16 en route code. (8:58)

    D: 2V16 (9:00)

    2V55: 2V55, same traffic. (9:04)

    D: 2V55 (9:05)

    351WC: 351. (9:11)

    D: 351 (9:12)

    351WC: Have those units shut down code when they get close. Let's not get this guy more exicted than he already is. (9:18)

    D: 351, copy. Units, shut down code when you get close to the Costco. (pause) (9:23)

    D: Units en route on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center, suspect's described as a White male, 32, 5'8, medium build, red hair, wearing a gray t-shirt, blue jeans, and white shoes, break. A black 9MM is tucked to the rear of his pants. (pause) (9:53)

    D: 767, could you advise where you'd like medical to stage for now? (10:46)

    767: Just have them stage, uh to the nearest intersection to that Costco. If you could have them not roll code, that'd be great also. (10:57)

    D: 767 copy. Did you want other units to shut down code? (11:02)

    767: I just want everybody to shut it down before they get close to that area; I don't want to spook this guy. (11:08)

    D: Okay, copy. All units, justs reminding to shut down code when you get close to the area. (11:13)
    767: 767 (11:18)

    D: 767 (11:20)

    767: I need a few more units that could head to that area also, so that we can shut down that parking lot so that nobody goes in or out of there. (11:28)

    D: 767, copy. (11:31)

    2X12: 2X12, you can assign me. (11:33)

    D: 2X12 (11:35)

    2X65: 2X65, same traffic. (11:43)

    D: 2X65 (11:45)

    351WC: Control, 351, where's the CP going to be? (11:49)

    D: 767, can you advise? (11:54)

    767: I'm not even close to there right now, so if we have a unit that's in there that could set up one real quick, that'd be great. (12:01)

    2V54: 2V54, I'm arriving in the Costco parking lot, where do you want me? (12:07)

    D: 2V54, at this time uh, I guess heading up a CP. (12:16)

    AIR5: AIR5, did you have any further at all? (12:22)

    D: It looks like the subject is still inside the business, argumentative with the manager who asked him to leave, telling him there's no 413's allowed inside the business, break. The manager is a Green Beret and is allowed to carry a 413. He's throwing merchandise around; he's still in isle 126 in the camping area, break. He appears to be fidgety. A female joined the male. She's described as Hispanic, 30s, black long hair, wearing black tank and blue jeans. Security's going to be standing outside the business in front of, to wait for officers to direct, break. He's walking through the camping area towards the front of the business on the main isle. (13:18)

    2V54: 2V54, did you want me to stop people from going in the business? (13:22)

    D: Uh 767, that's affirmative. Stop in or out? (13:26)

    767: Affirm. (13:28)

    D: V54, affirmative, uh V54, did you want a red? (13:32)

    2V54: Hold off for a moment. (13:34)

    D: Okay, copy. (13:35)

    2X65: Control, 2X65 (13:37)

    D: 2X65 (13:38)

    2X65: Run this by the WC and Sarge. If we could get the management and employees to start slowly evacuating people out of the business without alerting anybody, that'd be a great idea. (13:50)

    351WC: Control, 351WC, absolutely. (13:53)

    D: Acknowledge that. (13:57)

    2V54: 2V54, manager says it's escalating inside and he's still talking loudly and destroying merchandise. (14:06)

    D: 2V54, copy. 2V54, are you able to get security started on exacuations? (14:14)

    2V54: Affirm (14:16)

    D: Okay, copy. (14:17)

    2V16: 2V16, I'm out with 2V54. (14:55)

    D: 2V16 (14:57)

    Unknown bit of traffic (14:59)

    D: All units, code red this channel. Officers arriving on the 413 at Costco, 801 S. Pavillion Center. (15:07)

    2V16: 2V16, we need units to clear these people out of here. We're attempting to evacuate right now; get as many people out as possible. (15:45)

    D: 2V16, copy. (15:47)

    351WC: 351WC, where's the CP? (16:45)

    D: Uh 2V54, can you advise location of CP? (16:50)

    AIR5: AIR5, they're both right in the front entrance to the store. (16:55)

    D: AIR5, copy. (16:57)

    784: 767, 784 I'm arrived. What can I help you out with? (17:07)

    767: You can set up the CP, that'd be great. (17:10)

    784: : Copy, I'll set one up. (17:15)

    AIR5: AIR5, are we still landline with anyone who has eyes on this guy, because there's a lot of people pouring out of the store. I just want to make sure he doesn't slip out. (17:28)

    2V16: We got 2 officers here at the front doors watching everybody come out. (17:36)

    D: 2V16, copy. AIR5, it looks like we're still landline. It looks like the male is still being watched by inside personnel due to him ripping open packages. They're concerned of a 414A. (17:49)

    2V16: Copy, we've got a very orderly evacuation going on right now. We'll try to get all these people out of here and then figure out what we're going to do next. (18:00)

    D: 2V16. (18:01)

    2V54: He's directly in the middle of the building. (18:08)

    D: Okay, copy. Confirming suspect's directly in the center of the building? (18:14)

    2V54: ___ isle. (18:16)

    D: You broke on the isle, could you re-advise? (18:20)

    784: 784, copy location for IC. (18:31)

    D: 784 (18:32)

    784: It's going to be set up at the northwest parking lot at the Red Rock Casino across Charleston. It'll be the Costco command. I'll be incident commander until the arrival of 351WC. (18:46)

    D: 784 copy. 351WC, incident command at northwest parking lot of Red Rock Casino across Charleston. (18:55)

    AIR5: Control, AIR5, we need 1 unit to take the north side of the Costco please, right off of Pavillion Center so they can keepy an eye on the back and the east side. (19:02)

    2V16: (yell) 2V16, we got shots fired, shots fired! (19:11)

    D: 2V16, copy. Anyone down? (19:12)

    2V16: Roll medical. (19:13)

    D: 2V16. (19:15)

    767: Go ahead and make the notifications. (19:19)

    2V16: Notify supervisor. (19:21)

    D: 2V16, copy. (19:22)

    351WC: 351WC, I'm arrived, south end of the building. Is it safe for everybody else to enter the building? (19:28)

    D: 2V16, can you advise? (19:30)

    2V16: He pulled a 413 and pointed it in my direction. (19:38)

    D: 2V16, copy. (19:40)

    767: 767, can yu go ahead and make your notifications, please? (19:43)

    D: 767, copy. (19:45)

    767: Shut that parking lot down, please. (19:47)

    D: Units arriving on the 413, shut down the parking lot. (19:51)

    AIR5: They've got him out front, they're taking him into custody. Hold the traffic. (19:57)

    D: AIR5, copy. Subject is out front, taking into custody. (20:01)

    767: 767, let's make sure nobody else exit's that Costco right now. We may need to pull witness statements. (20:17)

    D: 767, copy. Units, make sure no one else exits the Costco, they may need for witness purposes. (20:24)

    784: Copy that they're taking him into custody. We're going to move the CP closer to the Burger King directly across from the Costco. (20:35)

    D: Copy that, CP will be moving closer to the Burger King (20:39)
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