LPVO on a pistol build

[Jcon268]

Thinking of going with a 1-4x Trijicon Accupoint for my 10.5" pistol which will eventually be run suppressed. I currently have an Eotech and it works great up close but I'd like something that can reach out to 300 yards and still be accurate. I've tried a magnifier with the Eotech and am just not intrigued. Has anyone tried this and been happy? How does it shoot at 1x? I'm leaning to the Accupoint for the reason of durability and to cut the need for battery replacement.

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[Member 34319]

ACOG?

 

[Jcon268]

ACOG?

I've tried an ACOG and it just seemed too different to me because of the eye relief and being used to red dots and holographics. I may have to give it another try with this in mind...

 

[spost]

I think it's a great option even for a pistol build. A 1-4, 1-6, or even a 1-8. Like everything, you get what you pay for. Training with your optic and knowing your ballistics and holds etc will be key when shooting long distances with the short barrels.

These optics give a great option for reaching out to distance and/or some cqb distances.

Bottom line, train with it!

 

[jordanka16]

I had a 1-4 on my 5.56 pistol but went back to a holo sight, a vortex uh1 in particular. For me it just didn't make sense, if I want more range I use my 16", with the actual stock and vertical grip it handles better. Part of it was not needing to deal with eye relief with a brace.

 

[Jcon268]

I had a 1-4 on my 5.56 pistol but went back to a holo sight, a vortex uh1 in particular. For me it just didn't make sense, if I want more range I use my 16", with the actual stock and vertical grip it handles better. Part of it was not needing to deal with eye relief with a brace.

I hear ya about going to a longer setup for hitting out to range. With that said I wouldn't expect to push past 200 yards with a 1-4x. I currently have an Eotech and while its reliable out to that distance, actually seeing what you're hitting is nice too. I'd like to use this as a HD rifle but still be able to stretch its legs more than 25 yds

Edit: more likely would use this within 200 yards only occasionally going out to 300

 

[jordanka16]

I hear ya about going to a longer setup for hitting out to range. With that said I wouldn't expect to push past 200 yards with a 1-4x. I currently have an Eotech and while its reliable out to that distance, actually seeing what you're hitting is nice too. I'd like to use this as a HD rifle but still be able to stretch its legs more than 25 yds

Edit: more likely would use this within 200 yards only occasionally going out to 300

I say give it a try, nothing wrong with that at all, it just didn't work with my setup/needs. I can shoot out to 300 with a holosight, but having 4x makes it way, way easier to identify targets, imo that is the biggest advantage of a real scope over a red dot.

The acupoint is also a great way to test that out. It's closer to being a true red dot at 1x than a lot of others.

Make sure you choose a good bullet for 300 yards, out of a 10.5" barrel m193 and m855 just won't perform.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

There are a ton of choices in the AccuPoint's price range (about $750). Is the battery-free illumination an important feature for you?

For the same money, you can get 1-6X, 1-8X and even 1-10X. Personally, I want someone to buy the brand new US Optics TS-6X 1-6x24 FFP just so they can tell me all about it ($660).

If you google "illuminated variable 1x" you'll find a master list of ALL illuminated LPVOs sorted by street price.

 

[American123]

I have a 10.5 with a 1 - 6 primary arms variable on it.

There seems to be a lot more versatility with a LPVO, personally when I conducted a somewhat scientific test comparing red dot to 1 - 6 I found my time on target from buzzer to target about 15 feet away and a 3 inch required group was on average 1/10 of a second slower than the red dot after dozens of shots, switching back and forth with the same gun between both optics so familiarity didn't favor one or another.

I figured based on my results, really what mattered most was effective training with the combination that would be used and doing so consistently enough to build the muscle memory. Now if you were only ever breaching rooms and clearing spaces within 30 feet, it would seem the red dot just makes sense, but for a more versatile set up that can accomplish the same thing with intentional training and also favor longer distances, it seems the LPVO is the way to go.

 

[Jcon268]

There are a ton of choices in the AccuPoint's price range (about $750). Is the battery-free illumination an important feature for you?

For the same money, you can get 1-6X, 1-8X and even 1-10X. Personally, I want someone to buy the brand new US Optics TS-6X 1-6x24 FFP just so they can tell me all about it ($660).

If you google "illuminated variable 1x" you'll find a master list of ALL illuminated LPVOs sorted by street price.

I already have a 14.5" barreled gun with the FFP 1-6x raptor. It was actually that scope that led me to realize that some LPVOs can be useful in close quarters at 1x.

The battery free is pretty big to me since it will be a home defense AR too. I want to have an already lit reticle when I grab it. Batteries would be fine if there was something that had near Aimpoint life.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Batteries would be fine if there was something that had near Aimpoint life.

I'm not aware of any LPVOs that have multi-year battery life claims. The closest would be optics with motion-on+auto-off features that enable batteries to last a long time, yet are illuminated whenever you pick them up. If you search that list I mentioned for "motion", it'll tell you which LPVOs have the motion-on feature (various models by Leupold, SIG Sauer, Docter-Noblex, Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss).

 

[Jcon268]

I'm not aware of any LPVOs that have multi-year battery life claims. The closest would be optics with motion-on+auto-off features that enable batteries to last a long time, yet are illuminated whenever you pick them up. If you search that list I mentioned for "motion", it'll tell you which LPVOs have the motion-on feature (various models by Leupold, SIG Sauer, Docter-Noblex, Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss).

Thanks for the info. I guess my requirements are as follows:
- high quality/very durable
- very close to true 1x
- good eye relief/eye box - it's not a red dot but I'd like it to function as close to one as possible
- motion sensor illuminates reticle
Don't care if it goes 1-4x or 1-6x. I'd like to keep it on the lighter side if possible although weight isn't a deal breaker.

 

[nwslopoke]

I have a 1-4 Leupold and 1-6 Truglo. The 1-4 is better quality but I can see a heck of a lot more with the 1-6. I think with the options today 4x has passed it's sell by date. Either a true red dot or 6x or better. This may not apply to younger eyes.

 

[titsonritz]

I'm not aware of any LPVOs that have multi-year battery life claims.

That's because they don't exist yet, but unlike red dot sights most have an etched reticle so they continue to be useful even with dead batteries.

 

[Jcon268]

That's because they don't exist yet, but unlike red dot sights most have an etched reticle so they continue to be useful even with dead batteries.

This is true. Again I'd like to have this on my home defense gun that I can grab if I hear a bump in the night and know that it's ready to go. For that reason I've considered an Aimpoint since I can just leave the dot on all of the time but....I'm a big fan of LPVOs and their versatility. I've been basically trying to build one AR that does everything well that I can shoot a lot and become very comfortable with. I currently have an Eotech which I really like but unfortunately their battery life leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Ops]

I run a Atibal sfp 1x8 on my 10.5

I almost went with the Atibal 1x6 ffp

haven't sighted it in yet though I had a mro on it

 

[titsonritz]

This is true. Again I'd like to have this on my home defense gun that I can grab if I hear a bump in the night and know that it's ready to go. For that reason I've considered an Aimpoint since I can just leave the dot on all of the time but....I'm a big fan of LPVOs and their versatility. I've been basically trying to build one AR that does everything well that I can shoot a lot and become very comfortable with. I currently have an Eotech which I really like but unfortunately their battery life leaves a lot to be desired.

So what did you end up doing?

My go to HD carbine has always worn an Aimpoint Micro, I like it for the extreme constant on battery life, lightweight, small footprint and solid reputation as a combat proven optic.

I have an EoTech on my dedicated NV gun, where I am not concerned with a constant on status and any time I use it I just go down the checklist..fresh batteries, optic on, laser/illuminator on, NODs on...rock on.

But what I'm really liking for a general purpose do all carbine is a LVPO with a Micro RDS at 12 o'clock in a Reptilia ROF 90 (check out the vid). I'm going to buy a Arisaka offset mount just to try it but I suspect I'll go back to 12 o'clock. My current LPVO is a Kahles K16i (man I love that scope) and I had an RMR on top. I an opportunity to check out Jon Dufrense's NV training gun (shown in the video at 5:50) with a Razor 1-10x and a close emitter RDS. I really is an awesome setup with a lot of capability.

 

[American123]

So what did you end up doing?

My go to HD carbine has always worn an Aimpoint Micro, I like it for the extreme constant on battery life, lightweight, small footprint and solid reputation as a combat proven optic.

I have an EoTech on my dedicated NV gun, where I am not concerned with a constant on status and any time I use it I just go down the checklist..fresh batteries, optic on, laser/illuminator on, NODs on...rock on.

But what I'm really liking for a general purpose do all carbine is a LVPO with a Micro RDS at 12 o'clock in a Reptilia ROF 90 (check out the vid). I'm going to buy a Arisaka offset mount just to try it but I suspect I'll go back to 12 o'clock. My current LPVO is a Kahles K16i (man I love that scope) and I had an RMR on top. I an opportunity to check out Jon Dufrense's NV training gun (shown in the video at 5:50) with a Razor 1-10x and a close emitter RDS. I really is an awesome setup with a lot of capability.

I recently did that with a 18" Tavor. 1x8 LPVO, a 30* offset coming off the top of that, closed emitter RDS, and DBAL. The RDS allows use with NV and the 1x8 gives lots of distance options.

Why the Tavor? 18" barrel reduces muzzle flash while keeping center of gravity rearward.

 

[titsonritz]

I recently did that with a 18" Tavor. 1x8 LPVO, a 30* offset coming off the top of that, closed emitter RDS, and DBAL. The RDS allows use with NV and the 1x8 gives lots of distance options.

Why the Tavor? 18" barrel reduces muzzle flash while keeping center of gravity rearward.

How do you like that offset? I really want to try one on my setup. MAWLs are suppose to work well with them because the lasers, optic and bore are aligned.

I'm a lefty so I can't do most Bullpups including the Tavor. I know the ejection side can be easily switched but I want to be able to transition shoulders. My MD is so effective muzzle flash isn't a factor for me. The center of gravity shift is a big bonus though. I've been using shorter rails but there is only so much you can do there.

 

[American123]

How do you like that offset? I really want to try one on my setup. MAWLs are suppose to work well with them because the lasers, optic and bore are aligned.

I'm a lefty so I can't do most Bullpups including the Tavor. I know the ejection side can be easily switched but I want to be able to transition shoulders. My MD is so effective muzzle flash isn't a factor for me. The center of gravity shift is a big bonus though. I've been using shorter rails but there is only so much you can do there.

Take this for what it is worth - I haven't shot it since putting the mount and RDS on it, before that I had just used the DBAL with the IR laser, but I've done a lot of handling in the house and yard testing fitment and NV clearance with the RDS.

I already had a 30mm larue scope mount so adding the 30* offset RDS was as simple as getting the half ring with RMR mount they sell to go with the Larue mount. (I found it works best on the front ring for clearance issues with the NV) I put a Holosun 509T on it.

The Tavor's sight height over bore isn't the same as an AR, it's taller, so the 30* offset is nice because a 45* would start getting ridiculous with how much distance it would be covering canting it to make it level. (Comparing it to the 45* offset irons on AR's I have. Compared to doing 12 o'clock for the RDS I like the 30* cant, it just seems to sit naturally in the hand that way while looking through the PVS-14 because I can't get behind the rifle the same as I would be able to without the PVS-14.

The Tavor is heavier than the AR, it just naturally is, but with how rearward everything is by comparison, the weight feels less when it's at the shoulder. That's important to me because I do want the long barrel and trying to have all that stuff with an 18" barrel AR just feels gross.

I'm trying to imagine how switching shoulders would work with the offset RDS and nods- do you switch hands also, or just shoulders? It seems like it would be really awkward compared to a 12 mount with is consistent either way you lean the rifle.