Loose Bullet - What Did I Do Wrong?

[Certaindeaf]

Ah, that would appear to be my issue. I wasn't thinking about the sizing portion of the decapping die in the kit when I grabbed the universal. I'm glad I stopped when I did. I do have the proper decapping/resizing die, I just failed to use that one the first time through.

Now, a huge newb question since I've created a problem now - 50 cases, decapped in the universal die, so no case resizing, and then primed. So, what do I do with the cases? I guess it brings up the question of how to deprime a case with a hot primer? Can that be done safely with a decapping die, without setting off the primer? If so, are the primers toast after that?

You should be able to safely size them with the primers in place.. make sure to remove the decapper first though.

 

[etrain16]

Pull the depriming rod and size them.

Your first size is external because they expand as you have found. So there is no harm with pulling the depriming rod and running them through again. Then put the rod back in and carry on with the rest of your cases after that.

Ah, I didn't think about pulling the rod, then running that die. Good idea. So much to learn in little steps, but I'm taking it slow, just so I can learn the right way as I go. Thanks!

 

[Goosebrown]

Easy problem to fix the decapper is removable so take it out and then resize the primed cases. I do this all the time.

I reload several calibers and some I have traditional dies like 9mm and 45 and 556, but for my accuracy loading, 308, 204 and 22-250, I use LE Wilson dies and an arbor press. Because that lets me work away from my reloading bench, I often decap in a decapping only die on the press then take the brass upstairs and prime them then resize them while sitting in bed with my wife watching TV.

There's a lot to learn and lots of good people to help.

On the expander die you need only like 5/100ths of an inch. I raise the piston to the maximum with a shell in the holder then screw the expander down and when I hit resistance I turn hard for like an 8th of a turn then lock it down. My brass doesn't even look expanded, but when you sit a bullet on them they sort of "sit there" and if you don't expand they try to fall off the sides, they have to balance. Hard to explain, but it is almost like wishing an expansion rather than forcing one. That leaves your brass unworked and likely to last longer.

 

[etrain16]

You should be able to safely size them with the primers in place.. make sure to remove the decapper first though.

Easy problem to fix the decapper is removable so take it out and then resize the primed cases. I do this all the time.

It's nice to tap in to some experienced loaders. Obviously I wasn't coming to that solution on my own, so I appreciate everyone weighing in!

 

[Lilhigbee]

When you reinstall the decapper rod make sure it is far enough down in the die. If you leave it too high the portion of it that resizes the ID of the case will be at the same level as the portion of the die that resizes the OD. That results in a MASSIVELY stuck case. Can't imagine how I would know this. Ideally measure where it is BEFORE you remove it. Otherwise set it as low as you can without it bottoming in the inside of the case.

 

[Member 5605]

When you reinstall the decapper rod make sure it is far enough down in the die. If you leave it too high the portion of it that resizes the ID of the case will be at the same level as the portion of the die that resizes the OD. That results in a MASSIVELY stuck case. Can't imagine how I would know this. Ideally measure where it is BEFORE you remove it. Otherwise set it as low as you can without it bottoming in the inside of the case.

Don't confuse pistol cases with rifle cases. (Don't take that as a negative). Lee uses a standard depriming rod. It's stronger than the RCBS.


Etrain:
1/8" below bottom is enough. No expander ball in straight wall cases.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Don't confuse pistol cases with rifle cases. (Don't take that as a negative). Lee uses a standard depriming rod. It's stronger than the RCBS.

Not at all!! You made me go look. I've got setups for eight different straight-wall pistol calibers and not an expander in the lot. Funny the things you don't notice. Thanks for the heads up!!

 

[Member 5605]

Aye, @Lilhigbee I had to double check after I opened my trap too! I was thinking.. "oh crap.... did I just... wait... no did I? Dangit... better to check or i'm deleting my post"

 

[Benchrest]

And don't be scared at the amount of torque necessary to loosen / tighten the collet on the sizing die, it's quite a bit

 

[etrain16]

Okay, so missing the resizing step was definitely the problem. I measured a few cases that I had primed, but not resized, and the outer diameter was around .385, after running it through the resizing die (minus the decapping pin - thanks for the idea @Dyjital, also confirmed by @Certaindeaf and @Lilhigbee), they came out at right about .375 I gave them just a bit of flare in the expanding die (just a little) and then loaded the cartridges. This time the bullets seated just as they should. I set my depth and loaded the remaining cartridges, which went very smoothly. And as @Benchrest noted, I didn't bother with the crimp and they seem nice and tight and fit cleanly into the case gauge.

All that's left now is to get them out to the range and test them out. Thanks again everyone for helping me sort this problem out.

 

[Member 5605]

Well done!

 

[etrain16]

Well done!

Thanks! Now that the mystery is out of the way, I think I can be a bit more confident moving forward.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you didn't "crimp" them then the flare remains.. to whatever degree that was/is.
I think most here would agree that any "flare" rendered should be "removed" via any sort of crimp die (most seating dies use/have a roll crimp profile - the 3 die pistol set used for generations in all calibers - or a "fourth" die .. a taper crimp sort of die).
Many people don't flare even straight-walled handgun, depending on the bullet. The heels of some jacketed slugs allow this but pretty much not a single sharp heeled cast slug will.
Even though they fit nicely into your gauge, the ultimate gauge is your pistol barrel.. they might not fit right.
Good job though.

 

[Benchrest]

We'll need a range report

 

[etrain16]

If you didn't "crimp" them then the flare remains.. to whatever degree that was/is.
I think most here would agree that any "flare" rendered should be "removed" via any sort of crimp die (most seating dies use/have a roll crimp profile - the 3 die pistol set used for generations in all calibers - or a "fourth" die .. a taper crimp sort of die).
Many people don't flare even straight-walled handgun, depending on the bullet. The heels of some jacketed slugs allow this but pretty much not a single sharp heeled cast slug will.
Even though they fit nicely into your gauge, the ultimate gauge is your pistol barrel.. they might not fit right.
Good job though.

I'll test them in a couple of barrels to see how they fit. If there is any question, I will try crimping some and leave some as is. It's mostly testing for me at the moment, so low number of rounds, just to get a feel for things.

 

[etrain16]

We'll need a range report

Will do. Hopefully that will be in the near future.

 

[etrain16]

If you didn't "crimp" them then the flare remains.. to whatever degree that was/is.
I think most here would agree that any "flare" rendered should be "removed" via any sort of crimp die (most seating dies use/have a roll crimp profile - the 3 die pistol set used for generations in all calibers - or a "fourth" die .. a taper crimp sort of die).
Many people don't flare even straight-walled handgun, depending on the bullet. The heels of some jacketed slugs allow this but pretty much not a single sharp heeled cast slug will.
Even though they fit nicely into your gauge, the ultimate gauge is your pistol barrel.. they might not fit right.
Good job though.

So, just to be safe, I tested all 10 on 3 different barrles, and they all fit very well, no issues. The expansion I used was very minimal, there was very little resistance when I put them through the die. That said, I will keep the crimp in mind if I have any issues whatsoever. Thanks.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Glad you found the problem. I think this thread epitomizes the good of NWFA. Glad to have been a part of it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

@etrain16, Hey if you wanna do a JCGC drive by at 0800 or whatever, PM me.

 

[etrain16]

@etrain16, Hey if you wanna do a JCGC drive by at 0800 or whatever, PM me.

I'll keep that in mind, thank you.