Long range shooting - Any Lapua owners here?

[recreshooter]

I'm no expert, but I generally agree and somewhat disagree. I think .308 is the most proven, researched and maybe becoming mediocre quickly. 7mm-08 is great and roughly same cost. Its not super long range but 6.5 Grendel CAN get out to 1300+ for paper (practice purposes) and 1k case/$230 ain't too bad..
I caught the 338LM bug as well, I was looking at the Savage 110 stealth fairly cheap and pretty dang good for what you pay. If recoil is too bad just throw some added weight temporarily on your rig no big deal.. can easily shoot a couple hundred a sitting.

Really I think wind drift will be the biggest determining factor on caliber. I just found out about it listening/watching Rex about a wylde cat that may fit the bill. The 7mm-300 or 300 practical. Which is supposedly even better long range shooter than 338. And by FAR cheaper and pretty simple to reload. Its just a 300 win mag ran through a sized die..
So now I'm seriously considering the Savage 110 stealth in 300 win mag and it's cheaper than the 338 as well so it helps pay for the custom barrel Lord willing I'll get both and have a 7mm-300, 300WM, AND 338LM.

I think Dr. Prepper is absolutely right about 308 becoming mediocre quickly. It's been mediocre for awhile. The only reason I use it is because it's easy to get components/rifles for cheap and it's easy on the barrel. I'm also of the opinion that it might be the right platform to learn how to read wind and learn how to deal with transonic zone due to the lackluster ballistic qualities it has in comparison to newer rounds but admittedly I'm still pretty new to the game. It's now a handicap in comparison to rounds like the 6.5 Creedmor at ranges within 1000 yards. Take two identical shooters and the one with the 6.5 is going to win every time in any condition except dead calm unless the cruel mistress of statistical probability has her way.

With that said, I wouldn't go with something that burns a lot of powder right away for all of the same reasons people recommend the 308. There simply isn't any reason to do that unless you just like cool rifles and/or you regularly shoot in excess of 1k. Better still is probably to wring out that Howa and see what the folks around you are doing. If the shooter, rifle, ammo combination shoots about 1MOA that will get you in the game for now. Learning to improve your handholds so that you don't have large extreme spreads and you have low SD is plenty to focus on if you haven't already got that down. I have been loading for 20 years and long range is still teaching me plenty about my reloading practices. You might win a PRS match with that accuracy and winning F-class will be out of reach but you will learn a lot in the process.

I do think you are on to something in having a battery of them though! I'll never argue with someone who wants to buy more guns.

 

[Misteramax]

I'm interested to see what my 6.5 Swede will do way out there.

Powder burners is a great topic. One of the reasons 6.5 creedmoor is great. Another reason I always wanted a 280 Ackley over a 7mm rem mag.

 

[Ura-Ki]

6.5X55 Swede is an AWESOME long range shooter, expect 1600 meters and more out of one if you do your part.

BTW, David Tubb holds the world record for the .243............over one mile!!!

 

[Misteramax]

That rifle is already gonna be my primary hunting rifle.

 

[tac]

...and don't forget that the .338LM holds the current world record - now eight years old - against the Taliban.

The then-CoH Craig Harrison took out an MG team and their gun at over 2500m.

Anybody watched the Australian guy on YT tube shooting at this distance with something or other?

tac

 

[tac]

6.5X55 Swede is an AWESOME long range shooter, expect 1600 meters and more out of one if you do your part.

BTW, David Tubb holds the world record for the .243............over one mile!!!

The standard 6.5x55 Swede? Do tell, please.

tac

 

[recreshooter]

I'm interested to see what my 6.5 Swede will do way out there.

Powder burners is a great topic. One of the reasons 6.5 creedmoor is great. Another reason I always wanted a 280 Ackley over a 7mm rem mag.

Awesome, get out and have fun. As long as you have a fast enough twist rate on the barrel to stabilize the heavier bullets available it will do everything the newer 6.5 rounds will do with a some small penalties to recoil, (very small)accuracy, and barrel life. Basically the only really good reason outside of the cool factor to go with more velocity at lower range is because of the terminal ballistics the extra speed provides. The improvement in ballistics of going faster below 1k is pretty modest and comes with a heavy penalty.

 

[Misteramax]

I haven't spent a lot of time back with reloading books. If I recall and correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall the Swede obviously having more case capacity but how much greater can I get the Swede to leave the 6.5 cm and 7mm-08 in the dust? Or is it not worth reloading and sticking to premium Hornady or nosler?

 

[recreshooter]

It's totally worth reloading to get the consistency you want to ensure your vertical dispersion is minimized. Ideally your goal is single digit extreme spread and sd and as far as I know the only way to get that is with handloads. Once you have the load worked out to do that you should have a modest velocity edge too. According to the Nosler reloading data online if you compare the fastest velocity powder at maximum pressure of the 6.5 CM vs the 6.5x55 you get about a 50fps advantage to the 6.5x55. Likely the velocity that gives you that consistency will give you somewhere in the vicinity of that 50fps vs somebody who is loading to the same level of consistency. Obviously, somebody who is just trying to get their velocity up without regard to what it's doing down range is going to have more but it's only going to help them when it hits something.

 

[Who The F R U]

...and don't forget that the .338LM holds the current world record - now eight years old - against the Taliban.

The then-CoH Craig Harrison took out an MG team and their gun at over 2500m.

Anybody watched the Australian guy on YT tube shooting at this distance with something or other?

tac

Maverick 41 Rifle Package

 

[Ura-Ki]

Not really keen to pass on load data ( for safety sake) used in a 03 Springer with a custom 26 in barrel and a 1/7.5 twist using 50.3 gr of imr7828 under a 130 gr Swift Scriocco BTS gives just under 3000 fps! This bullet I have found to be one of the most accurate over a wide range of speeds and it has a pretty good B.C. for such a hunting bullet of .571

The standard 6.5x55 Swede? Do tell, please.

tac

 

[tac]

o.

tac

 

[Ura-Ki]

Please, Do not attempt to replicate that load in any "Old" rifles, bad things are likely to happen!

 

[tac]

Sir, I wouldn't duplicate it in a NEW one.

But then, it's hardly ANY kind of a standard Swede load, is it?

tac

 

[Dr Prepper]

I think Dr. Prepper is absolutely right about 308 becoming mediocre quickly. It's been mediocre for awhile. The only reason I use it is because it's easy to get components/rifles for cheap and it's easy on the barrel. I'm also of the opinion that it might be the right platform to learn how to read wind and learn how to deal with transonic zone due to the lackluster ballistic qualities it has in comparison to newer rounds but admittedly I'm still pretty new to the game. It's now a handicap in comparison to rounds like the 6.5 Creedmor at ranges within 1000 yards. Take two identical shooters and the one with the 6.5 is going to win every time in any condition except dead calm unless the cruel mistress of statistical probability has her way.

With that said, I wouldn't go with something that burns a lot of powder right away for all of the same reasons people recommend the 308. There simply isn't any reason to do that unless you just like cool rifles and/or you regularly shoot in excess of 1k. Better still is probably to wring out that Howa and see what the folks around you are doing. If the shooter, rifle, ammo combination shoots about 1MOA that will get you in the game for now. Learning to improve your handholds so that you don't have large extreme spreads and you have low SD is plenty to focus on if you haven't already got that down. I have been loading for 20 years and long range is still teaching me plenty about my reloading practices. You might win a PRS match with that accuracy and winning F-class will be out of reach but you will learn a lot in the process.

I do think you are on to something in having a battery of them though! I'll never argue with someone who wants to buy more guns.

Not trying to hijack the thread but that's why I'd recommend the 6.5 grendel for cheap (er) practice. Cases aren't too expensive doesn't burn a ton of powder. And if you REALLY want cheap practice get the Wolf stuff is only 100gr. But it's super cheap and fairly decent from what I've heard. Anderson 16" barrel $100, a certian grendel forum has bolts for $58 shipped, and then mags plus ammo and your easily on your way up to 800yrds. Then with all the $$ you save spend it on some real LRP rigs and reloading gear.
It's all about getting to your goal effectively and as cheaply as possible then whittling down the most viable options.
Attack it with the thoroughness of a nasa surgeon.. slow and methodical.
As for OP's original inquiry I don't think I'd think twice about .338 (wait what just happened!?)

 

[slimmer13]

Not trying to hijack the thread but that's why I'd recommend the 6.5 grendel for cheap (er) practice. Cases aren't too expensive doesn't burn a ton of powder. And if you REALLY want cheap practice get the Wolf stuff is only 100gr. But it's super cheap and fairly decent from what I've heard. Anderson 16" barrel $100, a certian grendel forum has bolts for $58 shipped, and then mags plus ammo and your easily on your way up to 800yrds. Then with all the $$ you save spend it on some real LRP rigs and reloading gear.
It's all about getting to your goal effectively and as cheaply as possible then whittling down the most viable options.
Attack it with the thoroughness of a nasa surgeon.. slow and methodical.
As for OP's original inquiry I don't think I'd think twice about .338 (wait what just happened!?)

I disagree. The grendel nearly replicates the .308 external ballistics (with the exception of delivered energy), but you also have to deal with a weaker bolt, finicky expensive mags, and expensive, hardish to find brass. Why not get a .308 if going the AR route?

I should know, I first dipped my toe in to LRS with a Grendel and regretted it.

 

[P7M13]

After determining the scope was the issue, I replaced it. Next time out to the range, I asked my son to take the 1st shot so he could judge if he could handle the recoil. He crept up on the scope, and took the scope to the safety glasses on firing, cut his forehead, and said he was done. I ended up getting it done with the next 9 rounds, ending with a 3 round, less than MOA group at 100 yards.
Loooong story short, long benchrest sessions with lighter rifles in larger calibers can be fairly unpleasant, even with nerves of steel. Smaller recoil may never reach this, as I will likely be done doing what I went to the range for before my body rebels against the punishment. I cannot imagine doing this without a very heavy rifle in a magnum cartridge for long strings.

My first outing with my 7mm RM, the scope on it had a short eye relief. I put a good, half-moon cut above my eye, made a note to myself to get a scope with longer eye relief, and kept on shooting. Didn't know I was bleeding until a friend's kid screamed at all the blood.

Get a 338LM. I had the Savage 110BA and for the price it's awesome. Sold it to a buddy and still shoot it with him.
I missed the round so much, I built a 338 Edge, the "poor man's 338." It's the 300 RUM necked up to 338. Same amount of powder, same ballistics. I like this one so much more than the Savage, it's a keeper.
Shooting a 338LM without a muzzle brake is ridiculous. For good manners at the range, you can fit a blast director on your brake. I did on my 338 Edge. It changed the recoil from less than a 308 to the equivalent to my Vanguard 7mm RM, meaning I can shoot a box of 50 hand loads before feeling the fatigue.
Yes, premium factory ammo is ungodly expensive. I reloaded the 338 for myself, and still do for my buddy. What I noted, was that minor changes in powder charge can make a world of difference in the ammo accuracy. Reloading, my cost is < $1.50 per round.
A note on Savage: you cannot load hot. A SAAMI spec chamber with a hot round will be tight after firing. The Savage extractor on the bolt doesn't have enough to extract the case. I got sick of bringing and using a round expeller rod. I built a 7mm wildcat on a Remington action. I've tested some extremely hot rounds in that one, (very stiff bolt lift, blown out primers, etc), and have never had an extraction problem or a stuck case.

If I were to choose between the 6.5 CM, 7mm-08 or 308, I'd choose in order, 7mm-08, 6.5 CM, consider a few other rounds, and then the 308. I have both a 7mm-08 and two 308s. Prefer the 7mm by far. I haven't tried to stretch either one out. There are some on this board who regularly stretch the 308 out to 1K.
I bought my daughter a 7-08, and she loves it. Ammo I reload that shoots 2moa out of mine will cloverleaf in hers. I haven't found a pet load yet for mine. Check around, you'll find that 7-08 factory ammo is pretty spendy.

Whatever you buy, I strongly encourage you to reload. I find it as enjoyable as shooting.

Not really keen to pass on load data ( for safety sake) used in a 03 Springer with a custom 26 in barrel and a 1/7.5 twist using xx.x gr of imr7828 under a 130 gr Swift Scriocco BTS gives just under 3000 fps! This bullet I have found to be one of the most accurate over a wide range of speeds and it has a pretty good B.C. for such a hunting bullet of .571

... A thing of beauty....

Evidently you're going to do your research. Get whatever you want, shoot the crap out of it. Don't worry about burning barrels - you have to shoot a lot of ammo before you get there.

 

[Dr Prepper]

I disagree. The grendel nearly replicates the .308 external ballistics (with the exception of delivered energy), but you also have to deal with a weaker bolt, finicky expensive mags, and expensive, hardish to find brass. Why not get a .308 if going the AR route?

I should know, I first dipped my toe in to LRS with a Grendel and regretted it.

I've read multiple sources that say the Grendel beats the .308 hands down PAST 300 yards. Its not even stabilized yet under 150~200 yards it just getting started...
There's the YT video out there of it putting shot s on a milkjug @ 1500 yards. The BC is way higher than .308
And brass and components aren't hard to find anymore. They were a few years ago or maybe even a year ago.
And as far as weak bolts they are no weaker than 5.56 bolts now. 9310/9310. IDK who would buy a crap 158 mil spec bolt of either anymore that's just wasting money. And they both should last easily 5~10k rounds depending on use. And the "type 1" bolts which ARE NOT SAAMI do break extractors more easily that's why bill re-designed it propperly that's the whole reason it's set back to .135/.136" to accommodate a stronger extractor. should also mention you need to make sure you barrel and extension and perfectly concentric to your bolt, or you will always break lugs in any caliber.
And $20/mag is expensive? That's pretty average to me. They are getting better and better. The e lander ones are top notch. And are you loading to the max COAL?

 

[awshoot]

..."When I bought this I didn't know it shot $5 bills." After I got home I checked several ammo sources and found out that he was right. ... I know that reloading can lower that a great deal, but even the brass is very costly and then figure in the powder cost. ...

I had toyed with the idea of getting a .338, but even a batch of 100 empty cases costs about $250. Bullets about 80c, 85 gn of powder roughly 36c, and a primer about 4c. So it is about $1.20/rd not counting brass. If you get at least 10 shots out of the brass, that's less than a buck fifty, which actually isn't bad. But all that aside, the cost of brass made me balk because if I don't get 10 shots out of it, that ammo gets a lot more expensive real fast at $2.50 a case.

 

[Goosebrown]

Are you all limited to the small frame AR? 6.5 Creedmore blows doors on the Grendel over 600yds but at a high price in weight. Depends on what you're trying to do.