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Just what is this 'right to bear arms?'

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Give this some thought and skip the platitudes.
    I'm looking for some honest, thoughtful feedback as I'm probably going to do a follow-up in a few days.

    We do it. We talk about it. But do we really know what it's all about?

    This debate on HR 822 and national CCW reciprocity has opened the worm can.

    Just what is this ‘right to bear arms’ and what does it cover?

    Washington State’s own Tri-City Herald today published an editorial that speaks about the Second Amendment and how many liberals cling to the notion that it is the illegitimate son in the Bill of Rights...

    Just what is this



    It's important to read the Tri-City editorial to really get that gray matter working. It's a good editorial
     
  2. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Just what is this 'right to bear arms?' The right to have your own personal weapon/firearm/s in your hands or on your person for enjoyment or protection. This is not a privilege that needs to be paid for or the need to ask for permission to do. Any laws, rules or regulations (unless very temporary) take away that right.

    Howard
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  3. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "right-to-carry licenses and permits.." Is an oxymoron.
     
  4. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "A civil right that is limited to the confines of one’s own home is not a civil right at all. It’s not even a privilege."

    Darn good quote Mr.Workman!
     
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  5. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    a question for constitutional lawyers
     
  6. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Your joking right?
     
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  7. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    locobob and (deleted member) like this.
  8. VW_Factor

    VW_Factor Woodburn Oregon Active Member

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    Grunwald, Asp, locobob and 5 others like this.
  9. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    .... ^^^ That
     
  10. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't need ANYONES permission to do what is a God given, guaranteed right.
     
  11. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    The Penn & Teller video is great! Makes perfect sense. I watched some of Jackie Mason on polititians too. They are dispicable, even John McCain and he's not even a lawyer.
     
  12. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I said something about just let this one drop.Now y'all have the whole 'what exactly is the RTKBA?' debate going on with people who don't believe in it.

    Shoulda just let it fade away.Now their gunna bubblegum it up some how.
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Bear= carry or use in any safe manner

    Arms= any weapon a soldier can use to fight an army

    Questions?
     
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  14. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    This right came to us from English law way back in the early 1600's when a Catholic King attempted to disarm the growing Protestant public that did not support him. This lead to the Glorious Revolution and Protestant rule in England. Firearm carry and ownership became a right in English law. This then carried over to our country when it began.

    Most, if not all, of our founders believed that our rights came from God and that man had an inherent right to defend himself and his property from those seeking to do him harm. The other interesting thing was that they also believed that our 2nd amendment rights guaranteed the rest of them. This was of course due to their experience with the Revolutionary War and the attempts by the English to disarm the colonists. Bottom line is that if you could ask Thomas Jefferson what he thought about the right to bear arms, his response would be something along the lines of any law the restricts the rights of the people to keep and bear arms is affront to the liberty and freedom of all Americans and should not be tolerated. Bearing arms is simply the act of carrying a firearm anywhere at any time and I believe that this was the founders intent.
     
  15. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Quit saying "firearm", the right is NOT limited to that! We forge our own chains..
     
  16. fidelity

    fidelity PDX New Member

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    I think if you were to ask Jefferson about the 2nd Amendment he would reply that it has nothing to do with the personal right to own a firearm, but to assemble in to a functioning army in order to prevent the necessity of a standing army. I believe it was the framer's intention to vest all of the nation's self-defense capabilities away from the government and into the hands of the people. Of course, most of our founders were outright hypocrites who violated their own 1790's decrees by 1800 - like Jefferson, who assembled a Navy and waged war on Tripoli, and then called for the regular maintenance of the Navy. Jefferson singlehandedly declared war on Tripoli in clear violation of the constitution.

    Removing "right to bear arms" from the context of the 2nd Amendment is disingenuous. It is, to me, like taking the words "compelled in any criminal case" out of the 5th Amendment and trying to define "criminal case" as definitive so that we can create exclusions to the rule. The Bill of Rights was written for simpletons to understand, and it clearly says that a Militia is necessary to the security of a free state, not solely the right to keep and bear arms.
     
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  17. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is. :p
     
  18. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    The problem with your analysis, fidelity, is that Jefferson understood that private firearm ownership was necessary to the "security of a free state" because without private firearm ownership, no militia could be raised. Jefferson did not much care for a large government that had ultimate control over the lives of the people. The 2nd amendment is the right that guarantees all the others and Jefferson understood it to be this. He often spoke of the need of the people to have a means to protect their freedoms from encroachment by the government. The below quote from Jefferson says it all.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
     
  19. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Nice answer!
     
  20. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    O.K. Time to chime in. This "god given" phrase is pure baloney. Men fought and died for this right throughout history. Their blood, and our own, give us this right. Greater men than us saw what tyranny can be inflicted upon the weak and disarmed, and knowing this, insured that we would remain an armed populace to guarantee our rights as free men.