Is a holstered gun considered safe?

[wired]

This new twist in the story makes me wonder if someone had a legit ND which sadly killed the guy and so he tried to use the Sigs holster issue as an excuse.

Or he just plain murdered the guy

 

[Koda]

Or he just plain murdered the guy

Or that too...

 

[salmon creek gary]

This new twist in the story makes me wonder if someone had a legit ND which sadly killed the guy and so he tried to use the Sigs holster issue as an excuse.

Yes. Charging "involuntary manslaughter" leads me to conclude it was a negligent discharge. Late 1970s, I was involved in the death investigation following a deliberate discharge by an AF security forces guy in the arms room. There was definitely no "involuntary" wording in the charges.

 

[1775usmc]

From an article in military.com, it seems that "safe in the holster?" is no longer an issue in this case. The following is the short version; click this link for the full article.

[ Airman Brayden Lovan, 21, was killed on July 20 at the Wyoming base while on duty. Air Force Global Strike Command issued an immediate pause and subsequent investigation of the use of 9mm Sig Sauer M18 handguns, and the service as a whole directed a service-wide supplemental inspection of the pistol. The probe into the incident led to Friday's announcement.

"Since then, the investigation has progressed and an individual has now been arrested on suspicion of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice, and involuntary manslaughter," an Air Force spokesperson said in an emailed statement. "As with all individuals accused of a crime, the person arrested in this case is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." ]

That means nothing. It just means more than 1 person was involved. It could have still discharged in the holster. Whether it was horseplay or who knows. Let's say I was on duty with a buddy and we were wrestling and f-cking around and a gun went off in a holster killing someone else. The alive individual is more than likely going to get charged with manslaughter under the UCMJ. At this point we have just as much speculation as we did when the originally story came out. Those who have been in the military will understand what I am talking about. You can get charged for damage to government property if you get a bad sunburn….. the military plays by different rules and has different elements to satisfy a broken article.

Not saying it was the gun. But I'm also not saying it wasn't. It very well could have been a ND just as easy as it could have been a mechanical malfunction.

Not like it matters. SIG is trying to take a victory lap even though they have piles of evidence and open court cases pending.

The damage is done.

It's the Airforce…. They may have been playing spin the bottle but with a holstered P320 (sarcasm, don't get offended).

View: https://youtu.be/z789IuTQLs8?si=6ibMyPiIUEBfJXsO

 

[Aught Six]

Another reason never to own a striker fired arm, ever.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Another reason never to own a striker fired arm, ever.

Series 70 and older 1911s can go off if dropped. Some of the older S&W single action revolvers, particularly the hammer ones have had a history of going off when dropped and of other discharges.

 

[Koda]

Series 70 and older 1911s can go off if dropped.

I thought they worked out the series 70 fix? Many new 1911s are still made that way today.

 

[wired]

Series 70 and older 1911s can go off if dropped. Some of the older S&W single action revolvers, particularly the hammer ones have had a history of going off when dropped and of other discharges.

Colt SAA's.

 

[Member 96912]

I thought they worked out the series 70 fix? Many new 1911s are still made that way today.

They're more "drop-resistant" nowadays with lighter firing pins and heavier firing pin springs, but still not completely "drop-safe" as the firing pin isn't physically blocked by anything beyond spring pressure.

 

[ma96782]

Air Force OKs use of Sig Sauer M18 pistol after airman's death

MSN

Aloha, Mark

 

[1775usmc]

Air Force OKs use of Sig Sauer M18 pistol after airman's death

MSN

Aloha, Mark

That's correct.

 

[wired]

Air Force OKs use of Sig Sauer M18 pistol after airman's death

MSN

Aloha, Mark

Airmans murder that is.

 

[Koda]

So the Air Force inspects almost 8000 Sig P320s and finds nothing wrong with them and reinstates them for use.
That doesnt bode well for the anti sig claims....

M18s Cleared for Use by Air Force Global Strike Command Following Airman's Death

Air Force Global Strike Command has completed its inspection of Sig Sauer M18 handguns following the death of an airman last month and will resume using the highly scrutinized handgun.

www.military.com

 

[1775usmc]

Airmans murder that is.

Involuntary Manslaughter and murder aren't the same.

 

[1775usmc]

So the Air Force inspects almost 8000 Sig P320s and finds nothing wrong with them and reinstates them for use.
That doesnt bode well for the anti sig claims....

M18s Cleared for Use by Air Force Global Strike Command Following Airman's Death

Air Force Global Strike Command has completed its inspection of Sig Sauer M18 handguns following the death of an airman last month and will resume using the highly scrutinized handgun.

www.military.com

Yet they had to pull 191 out of service due to bad parts.

 

[wired]

Involuntary Manslaughter and murder aren't the same.

Even you try to cover it up?

 

[1775usmc]

Even you try to cover it up?

What am I covering up?

What is he being charged with…. Cause it ain't murder. I'm not good at reading but I don't see murder in there. I do see involuntary manslaughter though.

Just stating the facts we currently know.

UCMJ is different than civil law. And let's not forget innocent until proven guilty. I guess we just have to wait and see.

From the article above.

 

[Koda]

Yet they had to pull 191 out of service due to bad parts.

For maintenance

 

[1775usmc]

For maintenance

Sure thing….

 

[dangerranger60]

The only gun I currently own that has a cocked hammer or striker while in a holster is a 1911. And I feel plenty safe with a cocked and locked 1911 in a holster. DR