Is a holstered gun considered safe?

[Member 45541]

I'm safe until someone pulls my finger. Just ask my son!

That statement makes sense if you agree with a good portion of the comments. Which I do.

 

[Joe13]

Holster covers trigger and finger stays off the trigger then all my guns are safe.

 

[Camelfilter]

...Blackhawk SERPA? Well that's an entire thing itself; but suffice to say, enough ranges and departments ban them by name.

That is a training issue while drawing from the holster/finger placement.

Not an "unsafe in the holster" issue.

 

[Jim Horn]

That is a training issue while drawing from the holster/finger placement.

Not an "unsafe in the holster" issue.

For those with XXXL hands with correspondingly long fingers, the Serpa's release lever is pressed with the side of the forefinger. Upon removing the pistol, the forefinger extends beyond the trigger guard and can't touch the trigger without a significant conscious effort to do so. Works for me and both my 1911 and Shield 9. Also, the retention it provides drastically reduces the chance of another pulling the pistol and using it on me. Of course, carrying concealed, that should not be an issue, but as an engineer, I claim that "should" means something will work until it is vital that it does so. Then Murphy gets his due...

 

[Alexx1401]

Anytime this kind of thing comes up I think of that old line where the Russian says "Is not safe is gun". Since "normal" guns do NOT just "go off", then to me? Yes, in holster is safe. Most of the "thing" with this is people imagining things happening. I have been a 1911 fan boy all my life. When open carry was the only legal way where I lived my favorite holster was a beltslide. I lost track of the people, often other shooters, who would freak out seeing the hammer back. In their "mind" the pistol was going to just fire, which it can't if someone has not butchered it.

 

[saxon]

Is a holstered gun considered safe (quality holster goes without saying).

1911? yes
all others not so much

 

[1775usmc]

1911? yes
all others not so much

Huh…

 

[GunShy]

You're absolutely right, a quality holster with proper trigger coverage and retention is what makes carrying a loaded gun safe. The firearm is only as safe as the system it's in. A holstered gun, not being manipulated, is inert. The orientation conversation is valid only if we assume a failure, mechanical or user-induced.

The P320 concerns are about specific design issues, not a general indictment of carrying conditions. We point guns at ourselves and others in holsters all day long, that's just a reality of modern carry. The safety standard hasn't changed; what's changed is people being reminded that carry always involves calculated risk. Mitigate it with good gear, solid training, and situational awareness.

 

[1775usmc]

You're absolutely right, a quality holster with proper trigger coverage and retention is what makes carrying a loaded gun safe. The firearm is only as safe as the system it's in. A holstered gun, not being manipulated, is inert. The orientation conversation is valid only if we assume a failure, mechanical or user-induced.

The P320 concerns are about specific design issues, not a general indictment of carrying conditions. We point guns at ourselves and others in holsters all day long, that's just a reality of modern carry. The safety standard hasn't changed; what's changed is people being reminded that carry always involves calculated risk. Mitigate it with good gear, solid training, and situational awareness.

Well said.

 

[saxon]

Huh…

Is a holstered gun considered safe (quality holster goes without saying).?
a 1911 yes.
all others not so much.

did i need to explain it better?
there have never been any reports of a 1911 JMB design hand gun being discharged removing it or inserting it into a holster.
however at least 3 reports of say glock shooting it's owner either removing or inserting or even just moving around.

 

[shoengine]

Is a holstered gun considered safe (quality holster goes without saying).?
a 1911 yes.
all others not so much.

did i need to explain it better?
there have never been any reports of a 1911 JMB design hand gun being discharged removing it or inserting it into a holster.
however at least 3 reports of say glock shooting it's owner either removing or inserting or even just moving around.

Question was a holstered gun, not drawing from retention gun.

 

[saxon]

Question was a holstered gun, not drawing from retention gun.

there is at least one officer from a few years back who would say no, not with a glock.

 

[shoengine]

there is at least one officer from a few years back who would say no, not with a glock.

Do you think that anecdotal evidence from one possible un-commanded discharge will change anyone's mind?

 

[Spitpatch]

This one wasn't.

(From my post on an unrelated thread):

True Story:
My father's Air Force Commander (a Colonel), retired happily in Lewistown, Montana. He owned an early FJ40 Landcruiser and a Ruger Blackhawk (3 screw, old model) in .357.

Had the pistol in its holster, on a gun belt and hanging from the roll bar of the Cruiser.

Traversing some rough country, he hit a ditch harder than he'd planned, but the Cruiser did what they do, and bounced over and out of it. Hard enough to rattle anything loose in the cab (and make a lot of noise during the bounce...he thought).

Driving on a little further, he felt something warm in his lap, he said, "Like I'd pissed myself."
Looked down and the seat was pooled with blood. Then he saw the hole in the dashboard. Then he saw the hole in his abdomen. Then he reached around back and found a hole there too.

That .357 slug out of the pistol that fired when it hit the floor hammer-first, had entered the steel backing of the Cruiser seat, went through the upholstery, through the Colonel, through the dashboard and firewall, and was later found lodged against the engine block.

The Colonel drove himself to the hospital. Made it okay.

 

[Alexx1401]

there is at least one officer from a few years back who would say no, not with a glock.

When Glock came to market a LOT of Police agencies started to adopt them. There was WAY too many red faced Officers right off the bat. ALL of them were operator error. Most of these LEO's had been trained and carried a D/A wheel gun. The handed them these auto's and VERY often gave them VERY little training. There was a VERY simple fix for this but Glock did not want to add it. So what they did was start making pistols with FAR worse triggers to try to keep LEO's from touching off a round when they did not want too.

 

[ma96782]

I'm safe until someone pulls my finger. Just ask my son!

That statement makes sense if you agree with a good portion of the comments. Which I do.

Aloha, Mark

 

[osprey]

For myself, I consider all my pistols safe in a holster. If I was to start handing them to untrained persons, one is bound to prove me wrong eventually.

 

[edzz]

Back in the day BG (before glock), a number of departments had their revolvers converted to double action only as officers were reported to have caused negligent discharges after having cocked their revolver. Either unintentionally shooting something (or someone) due to the light single action trigger and poorly controlled bugger hook or by holstering a cocked revolver.

For this reason I think the original question should be changed to:

Is a properly holstered gun considered safe?

 

[1775usmc]

Back in the day BG (before glock), a number of departments had their revolvers converted to double action only as officers were reported to have caused negligent discharges after having cocked their revolver. Either unintentionally shooting something (or someone) due to the light single action trigger and poorly controlled bugger hook or by holstering a cocked revolver.

For this reason I think the original question should be changed to:

I think that should go without saying.

Mechanically safe STOCK gun. In a quality holster. Free of debris. At that point it should be considered a safe gun.

Unless it's a P320….

 

[Richo877]

I consider a gun itself safe. If you add people to the mix, conditions can become unsafe. Yes, a properly holstered, properly functioning gun is safe, unless the gun itself has somehow become unsafe, by either means of mechanical failure, modification, or manipulation. I assume every gun is loaded and chambered until I've physically cleared it myself, and I use caution when a muzzle is pointing my direction, not because I believe the gun is unsafe, but because I don't know whether or not the gun has been modified, tampered with or has mechanical issues, regardless of manufacturer or bias. People like to dabble in gunsmithing, do trigger jobs, rebuild parts, change springs, file things and polish points... I don't know if they've got any clue what they're doing. In a holster, yes, it SHOULD be safe, but I don't know whether or not the gun itself is safe; a heavy knock against the side of the truck with one under the hammer and their "light" trigger job could potentially be a hole in someone. I'll also add, I "feel" a lot better when I appendix carry my CZ vs my Kahr. Quality matters.