Oregon IP-44; thoughts

[Oathkeeper1775]

Of those who cared-enough to read IP-44 and are weighing the options of civil discourse; some may be thinking that the provisions in IP-44 aren't that bad... Perhaps they feel like the effort isn't worth time...

After all, being told (forced) to do something that is already being done isn't so bad...//s.

Because most owners of firearms keep their property secured anyway...

Most owners of firearms supervise children anyway...

Most owners of firearms transport them properly anyway..

Most of the owners of firearms are already liable anyway....

I know that only a small % of firearms owners will fight for their God-given and Constitutional rights of self defense; to those few I say fight!

Don't give away 1 inch, 1 ounce, or 1 iota of your Individual Liberty.

Write that letter to the Secretary of State today; tell them why the title is misleading.

Lift the ink pen (tap a keyboard) and write!

Spend 30 minutes of your time and .42 cents for a stamp.

Today

Read More

 

[BillM]

FIVE YEARS liability for damages that you have absolutely no control over? Who tracks whether it had a trigger lock at time of sale?

TRANSFER SECTION
2. (1) A person who transfers a firearm must transfer the firearm with a trigger or cable lock engaged or in a locked container equipped with a tamper-resistant lock.
(2)(a) A violation of subsection (1) of this section is a Class C violation. (b) Each firearm transferred in violation of subsection (1) of this section constitutes a separate violation.
(3) A person whose violation of subsection (1) of this section results in injury to person or property within five years from the date of the violation from the use of a firearm transferred in violation of subsection (1) of this section is strictly liable for the injury.
(4) The liability imposed by subsection (4) of this section does not apply if the injury results from a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I know that we are all stand up folk on here, but not every transaction goes through here . . . so lets say that you sell a firearm to someone else, you go through the background check, have it locked and all that. You GTG, right? Well, maybe not. What happens in 4 years when someone that gets a hold of that firearm and does something bad with it. Not your problem . . . until the person you sold it to is looking at some fines or maybe some jail time and lawyers up. The lawyer ask them where they got it and they just happen to remember your name but can't swear that when you handed it to them it complied with Section 2.(1) Did you take photos? Do you have a signed statement from the buyer that you did in fact compile with Section 2.(1)? If you don't, expect to spend a bunch of cash fighting that.

 

[3MTA3]

The five year thing is how we defeat this. Making "gun nuts" do extra things is OK to most folk, but when they find out they are responsible for anything done with a stolen firearm for five years should make any gun owner uncomfortable.

Even if it had a trigger lock when stolen how hard is it to remove one with a bolt cutter or a drill? Trigger locks are just to protect against a child or an honest person you don't need protection from. At best it's an extra 20 seconds when you need your gun NOW!

If the criminal is caught later, when his lawyer is offered a deal to make an example out of the gun owner he stole it from he will lie (duh, a crook lying?) and say no lock to get a break.

 

[JavaDude]

Is anybody chanllanging IP-44 BALLOT TITLE yet? It came out yesterday.


Secretary of State
Elections Division
oregonvotes.gov

Contact: [email protected] | 503-986-1518 | Toll Free 1-866-673-VOTE
Initiative Petition

The Elections Division received a draft ballot title from the Attorney General on May 1, 2018, for Initiative Petition 2018-044, proposed for the November 6, 2018, General Election.

Caption
Requires firearms be locked during storage/transfer, loss reported, minors' use supervised; imposes penalties/liabilities

Chief Petitioners
Henry Wessinger 1000 SW Vista Ave #1105 Portland, OR 97205
Vincenza Passalacqua (Jenna Yuille) 1704 19th St. NW #9 Washington, DC 20009
Paul Kemp 8710 SE 137th Avenue Happy Valley, OR 97086

Comments
Written comments concerning the legal sufficiency of the draft ballot title may be submitted to the Elections Division. Comments will be delivered to the Attorney General for consideration when certifying the ballot title.

Additionally, the Secretary of State is seeking public input on whether the petition complies with the procedural constitutional requirements established in the Oregon Constitution for initiative petitions. The Secretary will review any procedural constitutional comments received by the deadline and make a determination whether the petition complies with constitutional requirements.

To be considered, draft ballot title comments and procedural constitutional requirement comments must be received in their entirety by the Elections Division no later than 5 pm:

Comments Due
May 15, 2018

How to Submit
Scan and Email to [email protected]
Fax to 503.373.7414
Mail to 255 Capitol St NE Ste 501, Salem OR 97310

More information, including the draft ballot title and text of the petition, is contained in the IRR Database available at www.oregonvotes.gov.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

how is it my problem if i legally sell a gun to someone per sb941, person passed BGC and then gun is TRANSFERRED to that person at an FFL? the FFL wouldnt be able to transfer it without a trigger lock so WTF?


how is it my problem if years down the road they go crazy?

does anyone else see how they are doing this in stages? started with ramming sb941 up our ..... then for the law abiding they now have record of who has what(claiming they dont...but they do) now, theyre wanting us to register every semi auto we own... and when we dont, they know which law abiding citizen has one post sb941. cant say we sold it cause then were in violation of 941. cant say we lost it/was stolen because "why wasnt it reported?" and also, we can prove if it had a trigger lock.

 

[Ura-Ki]

^^^^What He said^^^^^
Still waiting for the othe shoe to drop on this one, the whole thing is designed for IP43 to get all the attention while they attempt to slide this one through! Just look at the out of state Bloomingbot who co sponsored it!
The harsh reality is 43 also could slip through, really sticking it to us, this contains some of the mechanisms to enforce the others!sneaky sum britches!

 

[billstaf]

Clean house in Salem is the only way to finally stop this idiocy.

 

[JavaDude]

how is it my problem if i legally sell a gun to someone per sb941, person passed BGC and then gun is TRANSFERRED to that person at an FFL? the FFL wouldnt be able to transfer it without a trigger lock so WTF?

how is it my problem if years down the road they go crazy?

does anyone else see how they are doing this in stages? started with ramming sb941 up our ..... then for the law abiding they now have record of who has what (claiming they dont...but they do) now, theyre wanting us to register every semi auto we own... and when we dont, they know which law abiding citizen has one post sb941. cant say we sold it cause then were in violation of 941. cant say we lost it/was stolen because "why wasnt it reported?" and also, we can prove if it had a trigger lock.

You hit the nail on the head, brother.

Question: Does the following information taken from SB941 apply to regular background checks? If so, this would be proof they are already keeping records on us, at least since 2015.

(7)(a) The department may retain a record of the information obtained during a request for a criminal [records] history record check for no more than five years.

(b) The record of the information obtained during a request for a criminal [records] history record check by a gun dealer is exempt from disclosure under public records law.

(c) If the department determines that a purchaser is prohibited from possessing a firearm under ORS 166.250 (1)(c), as soon as practicable, the department may report the attempted transfer and the purchaser's name to the appropriate law enforcement agency.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

You hit the nail on the head, brother.

Question: Does the following information taken from SB941 apply to regular background checks? If so, this would be proof they are already keeping records on us, at least since 2015.

(7)(a) The department may retain a record of the information obtained during a request for a criminal [records] history record check for no more than five years.

(b) The record of the information obtained during a request for a criminal [records] history record check by a gun dealer is exempt from disclosure under public records law.

(c) If the department determines that a purchaser is prohibited from possessing a firearm under ORS 166.250 (1)(c), as soon as practicable, the department may report the attempted transfer and the purchaser's name to the appropriate law enforcement agency.

the answer: whatever answer they think you want to hear thats in their best interest

 

[Ura-Ki]

And here is THE catch to all of this, because it's OSP who conducts the BCG in Oregon, they have a updated record on every purchase going back to the AWB when this whole bloody mess started! In theory, their illegally obtained records go all the way back to that time and that's how they will know who owns what! Like I posted else where, they have been caught a few times lying about having such records, but have yet to be punished, or to have those records destroyed! And Bloody Kate mandated through E.O. that the OSP keep those records ( legally) through her emergency E.O.!

 

[JavaDude]

And here is THE catch to all of this, because it's OSP who conducts the BCG in Oregon, they have a updated record on every purchase going back to the AWB when this whole bloody mess started! In theory, their illegally obtained records go all the way back to that time and that's how they will know who owns what! Like I posted else where, they have been caught a few times lying about having such records, but have yet to be punished, or to have those records destroyed! And Bloody Kate mandated through E.O. that the OSP keep those records ( legally) through her emergency E.O.!

If we end up with a Republican Gov. hopefully they will get to the bottom of this.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I'm drafting my title dispute tonight; we cannot afford to give IP-44 any less attention than IP-43...

Holding a person accountable for a crime (that may happen); out of their control must have a fancy Latin legal definition to it...or two...

I'm not gonna sit idle while they chip away; our Founding Fathers stood tall.

SHMG!

 

[JavaDude]

I'm drafting my title dispute tonight; we cannot afford to give IP-44 any less attention than IP-43...

Holding a person accountable for a crime (that may happen); out of their control must have a fancy Latin legal definition to it...or two...

I'm not gonna sit idle while they chip away; our Founding Fathers stood tall.

SHMG!

I agree. We can't give in on any attempt to take away our rights. What is ironic is that the left want to equate automobile ownership with firearms ownership, even though the latter is a right not a privilege. Well, how would Oregonians like it if the same applied to owning a car that was stolen or sold? Holding anyone responsible after it leaves your possession is just plain nuts.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I agree. We can't give in on any attempt to take away our rights. What is ironic is that the left want to equate automobile ownership with firearms ownership, even though the latter is a right not a privilege. Well, how would Oregonians like it if the same applied to owning a car that was stolen or sold? Holding anyone responsible after it leaves your possession is just plain nuts.

Or, every time a kayac-tivist blocked a ship on the Willamette; all the previous owners were punished...

 

[JavaDude]

If the Government ever tried this with anything but guns people would have an absolute conniption fit.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Or, every time a kayac-tivist blocked a ship on the Willamette; all the previous owners were punished...

They still doing that? I was down there when the Fenica was in town, boy did they jamb things up! Bunch of enviro crazies!

 

[Defense Minister]

The part of this petition under Section 2: Transfer requires that a firearm be transferred with the trigger/cable lock engaged or the container locked. Part of the definition of "transfer" is "to loan", so does that mean we would need to lock the action or lock the gun in a container before transferring it to a friend while training? The measure also creates Class A, B, and C "violations", but does not state whether they are felonies or misdemeanors. The idiocy of these folks never ceases to amaze me...

Time to write another letter

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Well, brain-storming..

In a laymen search of terms; the best I can find (so far...) is; wording that the title should reflect:

Burden of Proof: impossible without admission/self incrimination.

Accessory to a crime...presumes intent.

Aid and Abet: Encouraging or inciting another to do a certain thing, such as a crime.

Strict Liability: "guilty before being proved..".






Still working

 

[NW Backpacker]

how is it my problem if i legally sell a gun to someone per sb941, person passed BGC and then gun is TRANSFERRED to that person at an FFL? the FFL wouldnt be able to transfer it without a trigger lock so WTF?


how is it my problem if years down the road they go crazy?

does anyone else see how they are doing this in stages? started with ramming sb941 up our ..... then for the law abiding they now have record of who has what(claiming they dont...but they do) now, theyre wanting us to register every semi auto we own... and when we dont, they know which law abiding citizen has one post sb941. cant say we sold it cause then were in violation of 941. cant say we lost it/was stolen because "why wasnt it reported?" and also, we can prove if it had a trigger lock.

What if you bought a gun post SB941, but sold it to a free man (private individual) in Idaho or some free state, would that be legal? They'd say "What was his name"? You'd say, I cannot recall - met him at a gun show - he paid cash - I didn't know him - we went outside and transferred the gun at my car - I have no idea what he was driving. They'd say which gun show, where? I don't recall the date. They'd say Where did you stay while on this trip? You'd say, I camped off of a FS road near the freeway in the Blue Mountains. Did you buy gas? Of course - I paid cash. Which gas station? I don't recall. Did you make any phone calls? Darndest thing - I forgot my phone when I left the house - pissed me off!

Find out today where the gun shows are held around Boise and get the story straight in your mind. Think of every in/out. Rehearse it over and over.

They have some way of tracing all the guns used in the mass shootings because they immediately announce where the gun was obtained, whether it was obtained legally, etc.