Instructor Qualifications

[Cerberus Group]

Now we have a frame of reference.

Generally speaking, to teach MA, one needs a BB or some degree of BB which takes several years to attain.

 

[1775usmc]

I'll add in...generally speaking...In the world of martial arts, not discipline specific...but at what point is a person able to start teaching?

Again there isn't a set time frame. Belt level. Experience level. Certain amount of wins or competitions that will justify you as an instructor. It builds to your experience but even with all the experience in the world you could be the worst instructor.

What level is the person being taught at? Are you much further along than them? The student aspect also plays a big role in the answer.

There is no simple answer. Or a one size fits all.

 

[1775usmc]

Now we have a frame of reference.

Generally speaking, to teach MA, one needs a BB or some degree of BB which takes several years to attain.

I'd gladly take instruction from a blue belt or brown belt in BJJ. The belt doesn't make the instructor.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I'd gladly take instruction from a blue belt or brown belt in BJJ. The belt doesn't make the instructor.

What's the time frame for getting a blue or brown belt?

 

[Hotdog 7]

The difference between martial arts and firearms is that martial arts tends to have a very clear structure defining one's experience. Almost every martial arts has an official accrediting body. In my youth I trained taekwondo, earning a second degree blackbelt. My black belt was accredited through the World Taekwondo Federation (now just called World Taekwondo). I practice jiu jitsu now. My school and professor are registered/accredited through the International Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation (IBJFF).

My firearms training really has no official accreditation. I shot a bit in my childhood, but the first time I received *formal* training was in the military. When I had my armed security license in my early 20's, I had a 3-day training course (and annual refresher) with that. When I got into law enforcement we had about a week in the academy where we covered firearms. So collectively, over my entire life, I've had no more than 100 hours of formalized training. However, I've engaged in a ton of self study and practice in my free time. This has led to me being a very competent shooter. Oddly enough, despite having no professional accolades or accreditation for my firearms training - I feel far more comfortable teaching someone how to use a gun than I do teaching someone taekwondo or jiu jitsu techniques.

I feel that a competent instructor really needs to understand adult learning theory. I don't care how many cool awards and accolades you have if you can't actually teach worth a sh*t. This is a problem at my work right now. All of our current firearms instructors are former SWAT guys who were picked to be firearms instructors because they were/are SWAT. None of them have any idea of how to actually teach, meaning the training that new recruits are receiving is subpar (in my opinion). I am an FTO and enjoy teaching. I've taken several trainees who are struggling with firearms out to shoot in my free time with my own ammo. So far I have a 100% success rate of getting them to improve their shooting ability. But because I lack the fancy title of SWAT member, our captain will not make me a firearms instructor because he cares more about accolades and fancy titles than actual ability.

 

[Hotdog 7]

What's the time frame for getting a blue or brown belt?

It depends on the gym. Some only promote based on ability. Some promote off hours on the mat. Some promote off a combination of both. In my experience, it generally takes someone about 2 years (training 2-4 hours a week) to advance from white belt to blue belt. Blue belt to brown belt will probably take, at a minimum, 2 years depending on how competent the practitioner is. They still have to go blue to purple before than can get to brown. At my gym it seems most brown belts have about 5-7 years of training BJJ. Our two most recent black belts are 7.5 and 9 years respectively.

 

[1775usmc]

What's the time frame for getting a blue or brown belt?

Depends on your commitment. How often you are there. How fast you pick things up. It's different for everyone. And the instructor is the one who will choose when you're ready to receive it.

 

[Cerberus Group]

The difference between martial arts and firearms is that martial arts tends to have a very clear structure defining one's experience. Almost every martial arts has an official accrediting body. In my youth I trained taekwondo, earning a second degree blackbelt. My black belt was accredited through the World Taekwondo Federation (now just called World Taekwondo). I practice jiu jitsu now. My school and professor are registered/accredited through the International Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation (IBJFF).

My firearms training really has no official accreditation. I shot a bit in my childhood, but the first time I received *formal* training was in the military. When I had my armed security license in my early 20's, I had a 3-day training course (and annual refresher) with that. When I got into law enforcement we had about a week in the academy where we covered firearms. So collectively, over my entire life, I've had no more than 100 hours of formalized training. However, I've engaged in a ton of self study and practice in my free time. This has led to me being a very competent shooter. Oddly enough, despite having no professional accolades or accreditation for my firearms training - I feel far more comfortable teaching someone how to use a gun than I do teaching someone taekwondo or jiu jitsu techniques.

I feel that a competent instructor really needs to understand adult learning theory. I don't care how many cool awards and accolades you have if you can't actually teach worth a sh*t. This is a problem at my work right now. All of our current firearms instructors are former SWAT guys who were picked to be firearms instructors because they were/are SWAT. None of them have any idea of how to actually teach, meaning the training that new recruits are receiving is subpar (in my opinion). I am an FTO and enjoy teaching. I've taken several trainees who are struggling with firearms out to shoot in my free time with my own ammo. So far I have a 100% success rate of getting them to improve their shooting ability. But because I lack the fancy title of SWAT member, our captain will not make me a firearms instructor because he cares more about accolades and fancy titles than actual ability.

Question, and let's keep it simple and not go into the weeds or down rabbit holes...IF firearms training for instructors had some form of accreditation do you think the industry as a whole would improve?

Let's not get into what the accreditation would like look like etc., or a certificate doesn't make an instructor... we could be here for years discussing that.

Let's say the accreditation was on par with say IBJJF or the like...would that improve what we're seeing in the industry?

 

[64MercurysRule]

IN MY OPINION: you teach what you know.

My wife is a music teacher; usually keyboard and recorder. The school where she taught wanted her to teach guitar. She had never played guitar.
She found a beginner book and taught herself the first lesson until she was proficient. Then she taught her first class that lesson. The next week she taught herself the second lesson, and so forth. No specific level of proficiency just teaching what she knew.

Good point . There are transferable skills with any discipline . Some require more time to be more proficient in the skill and that takes more time . Everyone starts at entry level and builds from there , like a foundation of a house , driving a certain vehicle or Reloading of which the OP surely would understand . How soon should a reloader help someone else to be proficient and safe in the ways of reloading ...... What are the benchmarks , levels of competency ?
Hence there many avenues of learning but also to teaching . Carry on .

 

[1775usmc]

Question, and let's keep it simple and not go into the weeds or down rabbit holes...IF firearms training for instructors had some form of accreditation do you think the industry as a whole would improve?

Let's not get into what the accreditation would like look like etc., or a certificate doesn't make an instructor... we could be here for years discussing that.

Let's say the accreditation was on par with say IBJJF or the like...would that improve what we're seeing in the industry?

Accreditations just become a check list and water down the quality. You end up with a less than product. It will become political and the standards will be lowered to allow others to have their "title" without having the capability.

In a perfect world I would love to see a set standard. A high standard. I'd love to see the same thing for concealed carry licenses as well as LE.

But that's a pipe dream.

 

[MTpockets]

IF firearms training for instructors had some form of accreditation do you think the industry as a whole would improve?

A non-profit civilian version similar to FLETA (Federal Law Enforcement Training Accreditation) might be feasible.

But I would be concerned that it would become a requirement rather than an optional certification. I prefer the market driven solutions over regulatory ones.

 

[WillametteWill]

Question, and let's keep it simple and not go into the weeds or down rabbit holes...IF firearms training for instructors had some form of accreditation do you think the industry as a whole would improve?

Let's not get into what the accreditation would like look like etc., or a certificate doesn't make an instructor... we could be here for years discussing that.

Let's say the accreditation was on par with say IBJJF or the like...would that improve what we're seeing in the industry?

We already have this. It's called NRA Instructor (just so it is VERY clear to everyone, my tongue is firmly placed into my cheek).

You cannot keep it simple. Because it is not a simple issue. There are already multiple people out there offering instructor certifications. Some are complete tools. The egos in this industry are bigger than DJT and Elon combined. Should the person teaching new shooters how to be safe and get rounds on target be the same as some high-speed, low-drag shoot house stuff? There are some really good instructors out there who are doing a great job with new shooters, and their "experience" is limited compared to many on this forum/thread. Should they need to spend tons of money getting additional accreditations, while their current efforts are likely saving lives?

The thought is noble. But I think Caveat emptor is going to rule due to too many different types of training that people are attending.

BTW, the shooting qualification for NRA instructor is one that I bet most folks at the range (based on watching people shoot) would not pass. The NRA's focus for instructors is heavy on training methods that they find effective.

 

[Nosferatu]

We have a ton of people working here that have all the certifications under the sun and they are still bubbleguming morons.

 

[WillametteWill]

So, what did the brain trust at the class come up with?

 

[dangerranger60]

Question, and let's keep it simple and not go into the weeds or down rabbit holes...IF firearms training for instructors had some form of accreditation do you think the industry as a whole would improve?

Let's not get into what the accreditation would like look like etc., or a certificate doesn't make an instructor... we could be here for years discussing that.

Let's say the accreditation was on par with say IBJJF or the like...would that improve what we're seeing in the industry?

My answer is no. We already have a lesson plan certifying group. DR

 

[Cerberus Group]

My answer is no. We already have a lesson plan certifying group. DR

We do?