Indoor range use and impacts to the brain

[petehammer]

Great piece by NYT showing the impacts on the brain of shooting indoors. A lot to think about here, with helpful slow motion video.

Target Shooting Could Be Causing Brain Injuries. We Measured the Danger.

The Times tested the blast waves of several popular civilian guns at an indoor range and found that repeated firing could add up to potentially harmful exposure.

www.nytimes.com

Read More

 

[Stomper]

Great piece by NYT showing the impacts on the brain of shooting indoors. A lot to think about here, with helpful slow motion video.

Target Shooting Could Be Causing Brain Injuries. We Measured the Danger.

The Times tested the blast waves of several popular civilian guns at an indoor range and found that repeated firing could add up to potentially harmful exposure.

www.nytimes.com

They should be more concerned about the damage "energy drinks" are causing to the populace....

 

[shootdaily]

They should be more concerned about the damage "energy drinks" are causing to the populace....

You really hate learning something new.

 

[Stomper]

You really hate learning something new.

You THINK you know me!





Everyday is a winding road my friend, lean into the curves!

 

[roseburger]

Did you know that there's flesh eating bacteria that can turn a small cut into the loss of limbs and death? Approximately 1000 Americans get this annually.

 

[Tlock]

Did you know that there's flesh eating bacteria that can turn a small cut into the loss of limbs and death? Approximately 1000 Americans get this annually.

But but but.....I guess some people need to keep the few brain cells they have left

 

[Member 45541]

Indoor range use and impacts to the brain

Seems my parenst said the same thing about Rock-N-Roll?!

Didn't read article.

 

[roseburger]

Indoor range use and impacts to the brain

Seems my parenst said the same thing about Rock-N-Roll?!

Didn't read article.

It's locked behind a paywall.

 

[Tlock]

Indoor range use and impacts to the brain

Seems my parenst said the same thing about Rock-N-Roll?!

Didn't read article.

And punching the clown! "You'll go blind" well I call bs cause I can still see ok

 

[roseburger]

And punching the clown! "You'll go blind" well I call bs cause I can still see ok

LOL, great minds think alike! I was going to post that I can still see despite what my elders told me.

You beat me to it.

 

[Tlock]

LOL, great minds think alike! I was going to post that I can still see despite what my elders told me.

You beat me to it.

Beat it!!!! Just beat it!!!

 

[petehammer]

It's locked behind a paywall.

Basic point is the design of ranges bounces concussive forces back toward the shooter, where they bounce around in the skull. A couple points from the article:
1) "There are thousands of indoor ranges in the United States, and many have a similar layout: A row of lanes separated by bullet-resistant walls. Soft, shock-absorbent paneling is not standard and without it the booth can act like an echo chamber, reflecting more of the blast waves back toward the shooter."
2) US military's 4 PSI threshold is probably too high, likely need to change to reflect cumulative blasts (PSI- millisecond)
3) An AR-15, for example, is 1.6 PSI, below the 4 PSI threshold, however, with consecutive shots the impacts accumulate and can cause concussion-like symptoms.
4) "Post-shooting symptoms like headaches, fatigue and brain fog, which may be related to a brain injury, are often attributed instead to noise, tight-fitting protective gear, dehydration or poor ventilation."
5) "Fortunately, there are simple ways to limit exposure. The Times found that shooting in an open outdoor setting, rather than in an enclosed booth, can cut blast levels by more than half. When shooting indoors, ensuring that the gun barrel extends beyond the booth can reduce exposure. Choosing smaller caliber weapons and less powerful ammunition can also help. Attaching a suppressor or blast regulator to the muzzle to direct the blast forward and away from the shooter can also make a big difference. In The Times testing, the blast from firing an AR-15 rifle indoors measured as high as 1.7 P.S.I. When a blast regulator was added, the measurement fell to less than 0.5 P.S.I."

A table from the article:

Gun and ammunition	Avg. P.S.I.	Type
.50 BMG rifle	6.7
.50 AE Desert Eagle	3.4
.500 Mag. revolver	2.9
.357 Mag. revolver	1.8
AR-15, 5.56 mm	1.6
9-mm pistol	1.3
Bullpup rifle, 5.56 mm	1.1
12-gauge shotgun	1.0
1911 pistol, .45 ACP	1.0

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's locked behind a paywall.

Oh noooess whatever shall we do!?!?!?

https://archive.is/20251104122455/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/11/03/us/gun-ranges-brain-injuries.html

I totally would download a car

 

[roseburger]

I was perfectly content not reading it.

 

[Koda]

4) "Post-shooting symptoms like headaches, fatigue and brain fog, which may be related to a brain injury, are often attributed instead to noise, tight-fitting protective gear, dehydration or poor ventilation."

I hear Tylenol is super safe and effective treatment for brain trauma...


In all seriousness, what is the frequency of these brain injuries?
Did the study prove causation? Or just correlation?

...and I cant help but wonder who funded the study?

 

[bionic knees]

living has negative impacts on us, but we choose that too.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Basic point is the design of ranges bounces concussive forces back toward the shooter, where they bounce around in the skull. A couple points from the article:
1) "There are thousands of indoor ranges in the United States, and many have a similar layout: A row of lanes separated by bullet-resistant walls. Soft, shock-absorbent paneling is not standard and without it the booth can act like an echo chamber, reflecting more of the blast waves back toward the shooter."
2) US military's 4 PSI threshold is probably too high, likely need to change to reflect cumulative blasts (PSI- millisecond)
3) An AR-15, for example, is 1.6 PSI, below the 4 PSI threshold, however, with consecutive shots the impacts accumulate and can cause concussion-like symptoms.
4) "Post-shooting symptoms like headaches, fatigue and brain fog, which may be related to a brain injury, are often attributed instead to noise, tight-fitting protective gear, dehydration or poor ventilation."
5) "Fortunately, there are simple ways to limit exposure. The Times found that shooting in an open outdoor setting, rather than in an enclosed booth, can cut blast levels by more than half. When shooting indoors, ensuring that the gun barrel extends beyond the booth can reduce exposure. Choosing smaller caliber weapons and less powerful ammunition can also help. Attaching a suppressor or blast regulator to the muzzle to direct the blast forward and away from the shooter can also make a big difference. In The Times testing, the blast from firing an AR-15 rifle indoors measured as high as 1.7 P.S.I. When a blast regulator was added, the measurement fell to less than 0.5 P.S.I."

A table from the article:

Gun and ammunition	Avg. P.S.I.	Type
.50 BMG rifle	6.7
.50 AE Desert Eagle	3.4
.500 Mag. revolver	2.9
.357 Mag. revolver	1.8
AR-15, 5.56 mm	1.6
9-mm pistol	1.3
Bullpup rifle, 5.56 mm	1.1
12-gauge shotgun	1.0
1911 pistol, .45 ACP	1.0

Didn't read the article. But concussive forces are real. That's why I use a suppressor on everything I can and use the highest rated muffs I can get, not the 22db reduction that lots of people use. For me the goal is not get it to 140db, so-called hearing safe, but to get it to the lowest noise that is easily possible. Why not when it's so simple to do? Spend $35 on 3M Peltor xfive vs $18 on regular 22db muffs for example.

I never go to indoor ranges not due to some possible noise or whatever they are talking about but because I want to shoot how I want to, not wait 1 second in between shots which is completely worthless for me. The other reason is I don't want to get shot by some noob or idiot that doesn't know and follow the rules of gun safety. Also there is always the possibility of a power tripping RSO that is a dick, but that's a more minor reason.

 

[old greg]

It makes sense, id rather be outdoors anyways

This one time, i took an m44 nagant to an indoor range…

 

[ilikegunspdx]

FYI you can see concussive forces pretty easily. See below 9mm pistol compared to .308 pistol:

IMG_8028.mov

• ilikegunspdx
• Jul 21, 2024

.308 8.5".mov

• ilikegunspdx
• Jul 21, 2024

Now .308 pistol with tiny Witt machine suppressor which is little more than a blast forward device really (I know it's higher off the ground but that's the only video I have). With a full size flow through suppressor the concussion on this gun is damned near nothing. Don't have a video of that though.

IMG_8652.mov

• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 9, 2024

 

[mhayd93]

There is skepticism here because some members likely view this as a potential "hit-piece" on indoor gun ranges (which by proxy is an attack on the exercising of gun rights).

There may be validity to such paranoia, but the findings of the article definitely pass the "eyeball test" from my personal experience, and I've only ever shot outdoors. I recall a few times shooting abreast of someone with a compensated AR-15; the repeated concussive blasts left me with a mild headache. It seems entirely logical that this same effect can happen when shooting at an indoor range.

If nothing else, the data from the article puts suppressors in a positive light and points to them as a potential solution for mitigating the concussive waves. Certainly not something you'd expect from a Times article.