Indoor range use and impacts to the brain

[ilikegunspdx]

There is skepticism here because some members likely view this as a potential "hit-piece" on indoor gun ranges (which by proxy is an attack on the exercising of gun rights).

There may be validity to such paranoia, but the findings of the article definitely pass the "eyeball test" from my personal experience, and I've only ever shot outdoors. I recall a few times shooting abreast of someone with a compensated AR-15; the repeated concussive blasts left me with a mild headache. It seems entirely logical that this same effect can happen when shooting at an indoor range.

If nothing else, the data from the article puts suppressors in a positive light and points to them as a potential solution for mitigating the concussive waves. Certainly not something you'd expect from a Times article.

Re AR-15, here is concussion visible from rapid fire of a 5.56 AK. The video is twice normal speed and I don't have normal speed version handy unfortunately. No suppressor. If you click 3 dot icon in lower right corner you may be able to watch at half speed (on my phone I have to start video, then pause, then change speed for it to work).

RPReplay_Final1723526060.mov

• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 14, 2024

 

[Cerberus Group]

A reason why i don't allow muzzle brakes on my range.

Even with ear plugs and muffs, hearing can still be damaged by the concussion.

 

[Stomper]

And punching the clown! "You'll go blind" well I call bs cause I can still see ok

 

[JDubDub]

There is skepticism here because some members likely view this as a potential "hit-piece" on indoor gun ranges (which by proxy is an attack on the exercising of gun rights).

There may be validity to such paranoia, but the findings of the article definitely pass the "eyeball test" from my personal experience, and I've only ever shot outdoors. I recall a few times shooting abreast of someone with a compensated AR-15; the repeated concussive blasts left me with a mild headache. It seems entirely logical that this same effect can happen when shooting at an indoor range.

If nothing else, the data from the article puts suppressors in a positive light and points to them as a potential solution for mitigating the concussive waves. Certainly not something you'd expect from a Times article.

I spent the better part of a decade shooting weekly at an indoor range and I can absolutely see the potential for damage. Pistols were bad enough, but being anywhere near a rifle was downright painful. Heading home and downing Advil was common. I have hearing damage annd permanent tinnitus, even after doubling up on my hearing protection and I wouldn't be surprised if there was more damage.

Btw - the muzzle blast/concussion is the main reason I don't recommend rifle caliber ARs when students asks for home defense recommendations. In an emergency, you probably won't even notice the sound from your pistol or PCC, even if it still causes hearing damage. You'll most definitely notice the blast from shooting a 556 in a narrow hallway.

 

[Tlock]

I spent the better part of a decade shooting weekly at an indoor range and I can absolutely see the potential for damage. Pistols were bad enough, but being anywhere near a rifle was downright painful. Heading home and downing Advil was common. I have hearing damage annd permanent tinnitus, even after doubling up on my hearing protection and I wouldn't be surprised if there was more damage.

Btw - the muzzle blast/concussion is the main reason I don't recommend rifle caliber ARs when students asks for home defense recommendations. In an emergency, you probably won't even notice the sound from your pistol or PCC, even if it still causes hearing damage. You'll most definitely notice the blast from shooting a 556 in a narrow hallway.

Advil or midol?

 

[Kruel J]

Sure. But the NFL still exists even after CTE was discovered.

 

[Stomper]

Sure. But the NFL still exists even after CTE was discovered.

 

[doninoregon]

It's locked behind a paywall.

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[zeroready]

Anecdotal, but i read the article as well and want to chime in.

I've shot exclusively outdoors for years, now am shooting mostly indoors. 9mm and supressed 223/5.56. After shooting indoors for an hour or so, I definitely feel foggy and like I just wanna lay down for the the rest of the day. Like when you have a little lead toxicity lol. I am a RO for 2gun and USPSA, and I've felt the same way after standing next to to open gun muzzles with horrendous brakes on them. Concussed and just kind of beat up. And when people have brakes on ARs indoors, yeah there is no way that feeling is healthy. Definitely something to think about if you shoot a lot.

 

[Oxygen Mask]

I can't imagine shooting at an indoor range.
I would rather shoot less often and drive somewhere. I don't really enjoy our outdoor range as much as being out in nature but it's getting harder to find places to be safe.

 

[gmerkt]

A couple points from the article:

You can add a 6) point as well. The effect of concussion on the eyeballs. Particularly as a person ages. It's common for the vitreous lining of the eyeball to start to separate in older people. Which in turn can develop into detached retina. Concussive forces exert pressure on the eyeball that can lead to vitreous separation. I have experience of this.

concussive forces are real.

Completely agree. Just sit next to a shooter with a .300 Remington Ultra Mag with a muzzle brake and watch your stuff get blown off the bench.

There is skepticism here because some members likely view this as a potential "hit-piece" on indoor gun ranges (which by proxy is an attack on the exercising of gun rights).

Complete paranoia and fact avoidance.

 

[gmerkt]

Contrecoup injury is the term for when the brain gets bounced around inside the skull. Well known in forensic pathology. It may be inflicted by degrees, it doesn't have to be the result of a single, major trauma.

Look this up on Google: contrecoup lacerations from gunfire concussion

 

[zeroready]

I can't imagine shooting at an indoor range.
I would rather shoot less often and drive somewhere. I don't really enjoy our outdoor range as much as being out in nature but it's getting harder to find places to be safe.

I used to be like you haha. I swore I would never shoot indoors. But I reload, a lot. I need to chrono rounds. I have a spot in the mountains to shoot at but I cant always drive 2 hours to go chrono a few rounds.

The indoor range, while bubblegumty and unhealthy and expensive, is the only way I can really do load development right now. So my personal opinions have definitely changed. And I was stoutly against shooting indoors.

 

[zeroready]

Contrecoup injury is the term for when the brain gets bounced around inside the skull. Well known in forensic pathology. It may be inflicted by degrees, it doesn't have to be the result of a single, major trauma.

Look this up on Google: contrecoup lacerations from gunfire concussion

Scary dude.

 

[mvang]

Great piece by NYT showing the impacts on the brain of shooting indoors. A lot to think about here, with helpful slow motion video.

Target Shooting Could Be Causing Brain Injuries. We Measured the Danger.

The Times tested the blast waves of several popular civilian guns at an indoor range and found that repeated firing could add up to potentially harmful exposure.

www.nytimes.com

Very interesting and thought provoking article