Illuminated Reticle a Target in Dark?

[MichaelH]

I've got a Burris 1 x 4 MTAC with an illuminated reticle. Tonight I noticed what it looks like from the front in the dark: which would be a pretty good place to shoot a if an armed intruder in the dark wanted to put one in my skull. Sure my light would leave a nighttime intruder seeing spots, but lights are a target too. Now I'm considering removing this LPVO from any sort of defensive setup that might be used at night.

I suppos I could leave it turned off and just use the etched reticle w/a
light in the dark, but that seems contrary to the purpose. Do other LPVOs do this or do higher end versions have a way to shield illumination from showing through scope front? Is this an issue anyone has considered to be a problem in a defensive scenario? Possible solutions?

Pic is from the front with rifle on a vise block in my pretty dark basement.

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[tac]

Difficult to say really, as most perps looking at a glowing reticle tend to be dead shortly afterwards.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Just guessing here....

Would one of those "flip up scope covers" with a tinted piece of clear plastic work on limiting the glow...?

In any event , for what it is worth from a guy who doesn't have a scope like this , I wouldn't worry about it.
If you would have to actually shoot , in my experience at least , that moment is fast and I don't think that it would matter if the threat saw "the light" from your scope first.
Andy

 

[BrandonQuixote]

That seems like threading a needle with another needle, odds are they'd try shooting at the significantly larger parts of you first. Unless you yourself could hit what looks like a 24mm objective lens-under stress, on demand, I wouldn't worry about them being able to. Never noticed anything like this on assorted Steiner, Eotech, Vortex and Aimpoints- both red dots and LPVO's. Could be you got it cranked up all the way and its a etched reticle after all.

 

[orygun]

Interesting. I have a Leupold VX-R with the Firedot reticle. While I prefer to not be on the business end of my rifle, I'm going to have to check this out, just out of curiosity.

 

[308]

In the case of an armed 'intruder' I think a glowing reticle would be the very least of your problems.

Outdoors if the intruder has NV air TI I know a glowing reticle would be the very least of your problems.

 

[mkwerx]

I'm not against illuminated reticle LVPO's - when I decided on one a couple weeks ago for my AR, it came down to the specific reticles themselves. My two top choices were the Redfield Rebel non-illum, standard Duplex - and the Burris RT6 which has an illuminated horseshoe-dot reticle with a few windage/elevation hashes.

As nice of a scope as the Burris is - the reticle was not as fast for me to pick up and draw focus to the target. I think it has to do with the full length cross hairs on the duplex - the Burris didn't have that, the reticle was just in the center of the glass. On an actual RDS, this is normal to me. On a magnified optic, my brain wasn't processing this as well I guess. I went with the Redfield because of how much easier it was to get on target.

I won't be aiming my gun at something I cannot ID - I have a white light mounted to the rail. I tested the light / optic combo the night I got it home.

It's 309 feet - 103 yards - from my front door to the fence at my driveway. My light provides enough illumination, in full dark, to positively ID a target at that distance and provides plenty of light to get the reticle on target. At closer ranges, obviously the target is even better illuminated.

I wish I had the thousand bucks for a Trijicon Accupoint LVPO, but I don't. I think their reticle would be the best, because it is a duplex with an illuminated center dot. Best of both worlds.

Personally I would not want the entire reticle to be illuminated because it would just be too busy. I like the black cross hair with the illuminated center.

Your mileage may vary, but I don't think illumination is important on an LVPO if you have a weapon mounted light - which you should anyway because you don't want to send a round thru a family member thinking its a bad guy.

 

[mkwerx]

Before you buy a whole new optic - have you tried installing a kill flash on the front and seeing how it looks?

 

[Knute]

Some scope manufacturers have spent a lot time on this subject for the tactical community "we own the night" kinds of forces. I guess it depends on how nighttime stealthy you want to be…and how much scope to afford.

There should be some good articles out there on scope light emission testing. Good topic

 

[Member 34319]

Is that the highest setting? Usually the higher settings are for daytime and the lower settings for night use. Some reason that screams highest setting to me. If it is, is it just as freaking bright on the other side?

 

[MichaelH]

I live in the city so we're talking less than 100 yard engagements, no matter what, and likely intruders being armed only with handguns. With iron sights at likely distances I can easily hit bad-guy sized targets.

I had the illumination set mid-level, assuming potential transitions from light to dark. The reticle on this scope is a CQB reticle, so a thicklined circle with crosshairs in the middle of the field of view, and it's really designed to operate like a red-dot with the posibility of some magnification. The view shown is a 1x power. I do have a weapon mounted light and even if its a $100+/- Olight it's pretty blinding. I recognize that if the light is on this concern is moot. At the same time, I've also always thought about how if I was an armed bad guy that (assuming I'm bad enough) as soon as there is a flashlight light turned on that's the direction that I'd send rounds. I wasn't thinking the "bullet through the scope" scenario more than the aim just to the left of the red thing possibility.

For my various single power red-dots I don't see the same problem. Honestly the carbine I'd likely grab if something went bump in the night has a Sig Romeo 5 on it, FWIW

I suspect I'm overthinking this.

 

[mkwerx]

I live in the city so we're talking less than 100 yard engagements, no matter what, and likely intruders being armed only with handguns. With iron sights at likely distances I can easily hit bad-guy sized targets.

I had the illumination set mid-level, assuming potential transitions from light to dark. The reticle on this scope is a CQB reticle, so a thicklined circle with crosshairs in the middle of the field of view, and it's really designed to operate like a red-dot with the posibility of some magnification. The view shown is a 1x power. I do have a weapon mounted light and even if its a $100+/- Olight it's pretty blinding. I recognize that if the light is on this concern is moot. At the same time, I've also always thought about how if I was an armed bad guy that (assuming I'm bad enough) as soon as there is a flashlight light turned on that's the direction that I'd send rounds. I wasn't thinking the "bullet through the scope" scenario more than the aim just to the left of the red thing possibility.

For my various single power red-dots I don't see the same problem. Honestly the carbine I'd likely grab if something went bump in the night has a Sig Romeo 5 on it, FWIW

I suspect I'm overthinking this.

Probably. Different tools for different jobs and different shooters!

I'm out in the country, house is at the back of the property. Max shot distance in the house is 20 yards. My max safe shot, as I mentioned, would be 103 yards - there are slightly longer range potential shots, but my neighbor's houses across the street would be the backstop, so those'd be no-gos. I don't envision hordes of zombies/bikers/Mongols sweeping our hood and engaging in Iraq style engagements. I suppose from crest to crest, one could take about a 300 yard shot straight down the road. 99.99999% sure that'll never happen.

This would also be the gun I grab for predatory / dangerous animals. We do have hogs, they killed a lady in the adjoining neighborhood a couple years ago, in her yard. I haven't seen the wild bacon personally yet, but they've torn up my yard a couple times and I've found hog tracks behind and beside the house. I don't typically leave the house without at least a pistol for that reason. I've carried this AR out back while walking the dogs too when we've found the hog tracks, just in case. It was also comforting to have handy when the police helicopers were scanning our property last year, when a carload of armed robbers took off in our neighborhood after robbing a gas station down the road.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I run a Trijicon Credo HX, has an etched reticle but the only thing that lights up is a dot...acts like a normal red dot, but with magnification...and no, there's no light coming out of the front of the scope in the dark.

 

[tac]

I have an 82mm ARD on my Kowa spotting scope - great piece of kit, as indeed it ought to be for over $400 about fifteen years ago. I just put it in front of my little red dot sight on a Walther CP88 pistol, and, as I noted earlier, you CAN see it, but if it was pointed at you in earnest, getting a sneak preview would be the last thing on your mind.

Literally.

 

[Member 34319]

I live in the city so we're talking less than 100 yard engagements, no matter what, and likely intruders being armed only with handguns. With iron sights at likely distances I can easily hit bad-guy sized targets.

I had the illumination set mid-level, assuming potential transitions from light to dark. The reticle on this scope is a CQB reticle, so a thicklined circle with crosshairs in the middle of the field of view, and it's really designed to operate like a red-dot with the posibility of some magnification. The view shown is a 1x power. I do have a weapon mounted light and even if its a $100+/- Olight it's pretty blinding. I recognize that if the light is on this concern is moot. At the same time, I've also always thought about how if I was an armed bad guy that (assuming I'm bad enough) as soon as there is a flashlight light turned on that's the direction that I'd send rounds. I wasn't thinking the "bullet through the scope" scenario more than the aim just to the left of the red thing possibility.

For my various single power red-dots I don't see the same problem. Honestly the carbine I'd likely grab if something went bump in the night has a Sig Romeo 5 on it, FWIW

I suspect I'm overthinking this.

I'd think you should be fine on a lower setting. If you transition to light, the reticle will still be there. It might be worth actually practicing this to see what you can get away with.

The part about a bad guy seeing the red and shooting towards it, that's giving the typical bad guy way too much credit.

 

[Member 53328]

It has actually been proven that untrained humans will unconsciously shoot at bright objects. Whether it be the flash of a gun, light, ect. It's simply how the brain works. Shooting at the threat is common which is why it is so common to see people shot in the hands who are actively shooting or holding a light. That's one of the main reasons why they teach the "fbi" method where you hold the light up and away from your body (personally I hate this method). I would not run a defensive weapon with an optic that illuminated out the front that much. Not every criminal is stupid. Depending on the scenario or your training they may get the jump on you.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

That's one of the main reasons why they teach the "fbi" method where you hold the light up and away from your body (personally I hate this method).

*Will Petty had entered the chat*

 

[MichaelH]

My concern about use of WMLs was stated above....my thought is that's why they typically have a pretty responsive on/off switch: so one can use it to quickly id a threat/target and then let the light go off. The impact then would probably be to temporarily blind/ disorient the potential target permitting me to get some shots off at it. This is also why the illuminated reticle/ potential target issue seems problematic to me. Again I suspect if I'm running it at the lowest setting some of my concerns will be ameliorated. I guess nothing's perfect in a dangerous situation unless I'm using more costly battle oriented gear like NV. Honestly there are few places in or immediately outside my home where it's pitch black assuming no power outage. Then again part of my reason for having defensive tools like a rifle are for scenarios where disasters that might result in power outages might also result in civil unrest. Now I might consider some other options to increase personal safety including higher end optics or perhaps some sort of light reducing filter (like a honeycombed front lense attachment to stop glare) on my current optic.

 

[GrayGoose]

I've got a Burris 1 x 4 MTAC with an illuminated reticle. Tonight I noticed what it looks like from the front in the dark: which would be a pretty good place to shoot a if an armed intruder in the dark wanted to put one in my skull. Sure my light would leave a nighttime intruder seeing spots, but lights are a target too. Now I'm considering removing this LPVO from any sort of defensive setup that might be used at night.

I suppos I could leave it turned off and just use the etched reticle w/a
light in the dark, but that seems contrary to the purpose. Do other LPVOs do this or do higher end versions have a way to shield illumination from showing through scope front? Is this an issue anyone has considered to be a problem in a defensive scenario? Possible solutions?

Pic is from the front with rifle on a vise block in my pretty dark basement.

View attachment 1062528

Consider that lighted reticle a safety warning to potential Alec Baldwin victims.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

My concern about use of WMLs was stated above....my thought is that's why they typically have a pretty responsive on/off switch: so one can use it to quickly id a threat/target and then let the light go off. The impact then would probably be to temporarily blind/ disorient the potential target permitting me to get some shots off at it. This is also why the illuminated reticle/ potential target issue seems problematic to me. Again I suspect if I'm running it at the lowest setting some of my concerns will be ameliorated. I guess nothing's perfect in a dangerous situation unless I'm using more costly battle oriented gear like NV. Honestly there are few places in or immediately outside my home where it's pitch black assuming no power outage. Then again part of my reason for having defensive tools like a rifle are for scenarios where disasters that might result in power outages might also result in civil unrest. Now I might consider some other options to increase personal safety including higher end optics or perhaps some sort of light reducing filter (like a honeycombed front lense attachment to stop glare) on my current optic.

You'll never, ever regret getting the better optic.