If you carry do NOT be this idiot

[ilikegunspdx]

I would have followed at a distance and observed, while being on the phone with police. Then IF they did indeed pull out their guns and start a robbery, I MIGHT intervene, if the circumstances favored an intervention.

But to sit here and act like youths carrying guns just walking into a store nowadays doesn't usually result in chaos is just sheer ignorance. Sadly, it happens all the time in major cities. "I see people open carrying all the time in so-and-so" is irrelevant when they aren't allowed to do it at their age.

Exactly. Seeing something suspicious like that is condition orange. Observe and report, take up an advantageous position as you continue to observe, prepare for what might come next, or whatever you think for that particular situation.

Everyone has different scenarios where they would intervene. But a lot of times one has to actually figure out what the hell is going on first. An observation can have many different interpretations, and it needs to be clear before you take action. Mass shooter is an example where it may be clear what is going on. And some people will intervene and some won't (I don't judge what each person has on their list of what they will intervene for).

Gang bangers fighting each other is another exampel where it might be clear what is going on. I can't think of anyone other than LEO who would intervene in that. And both of those are shots fired examples.

A youth walking in a parking lot with a gun is definitely a specific possible threat in the environment that is out of place and should put you in condition orange. Actions should be appropriate to that (observe and report, leave the area, gather more info., prepare yourself, get in advantageous position, etc etc whatever is right for you in that specific situation). You see a possible threat but it has lots of interpretations as to what is actually going on.

 

[Yarome]

I would have followed at a distance and observed, while being on the phone with police. Then IF they did indeed pull out their guns and start a robbery, I MIGHT intervene, if the circumstances favored an intervention.

But to sit here and act like youths carrying guns just walking into a store nowadays doesn't usually result in chaos is just sheer ignorance. Sadly, it happens all the time in major cities. "I see people open carrying all the time in so-and-so" is irrelevant when they aren't allowed to do it at their age.

That's a much more measured and appropriate response... and likely what I would do... with the exception of calling 911. Unless there is something about their demeanor that appears menacing, LEO's are already overburdened with "minutia" and jamming someone up with LE unnecessarily is never a good thing, IMHO. Introducing that element also has the very real potential of over escalating a situation.

There have been more than enough innocent teens momentarily playing with a stupid stick that have lost their lives unnecessarily to LE. Not that I fault LE, when by all first appearances there may a potential their lives may be at risk, but pouring fuel near an open flame certainly increases the risk of regrettable things happening.

From my experience, snap assumptions rarely prove true if given just a little time for further assessment.

 

[Koda]

Im baffled by this phenomenon of people walking around with a gun in hand is an ok idea....

 

[Certaindeaf]

Im baffled by this phenomenon of people walking around with a gun in hand is an ok idea....

In my neighborhood I see the same 10-11 yr old walking around with what looks to me like an airsoft pistol in his hand. Not pointing it around or horsing around, just carrying it halfway sneakily in his hand. He's always accompanied by two of his friends. Creeps me the f out. I should probably yell at him to put that f ing gun away but hey, he'll figure it out. Or not.

 

[Koda]

But to sit here and act like youths carrying guns just walking into a store nowadays doesn't usually result in chaos is just sheer ignorance. Sadly, it happens all the time in major cities. "I see people open carrying all the time in so-and-so" is irrelevant when they aren't allowed to do it at their age.

Agree its just sheer ignorance though I also agree the mall cop went overboard and this case will cost him.
Last year I walked into a Sportsmans store at the same time a guy carrying an AR15 -in hand- was walking in. The only reason I didn't react is because I quickly realized if he was a mass shooter he would have had me already. It was not a good feeling to have to make that discernment in the time it would have taken him to raise his rifle.
Yet, if I would have come here in this forum to suggest gun owners use common sense and sling, case or holster their guns in public I probably would have got flamed and branded as anti gun or something.
The gun community is quick to encourage people to buy a gun, quick to encourage people to learn to use the gun, but crickets on encouraging people to learn the laws and etiquette when that should come first.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The gun community is quick to encourage people to buy a gun, quick to encourage people to learn to use the gun, but crickets on encouraging people to learn the laws and etiquette when that should come first.

Not all of us.

It's not a problem buying them or owning them imo. But treat it just like any other firearm imo. For me all guns are concealed in a bag or case, even going from house to vehicle or from ffl to car. Out of sight = out of mind = no extra trouble for you. But that's mainly cuz I live in an area where snowflakes will freak if they see a gun. Also don't want to create any confusion for officers who may arrive with totally wrong info or are scared of acorns.

To me it's common sense at least where I live. TX or other areas where it's common to see guns might be different.

It used to be different. When I was a kid we used to ride our bmx bikes to the woods with our 10/22s on the handlebars.

 

[Koda]

In my neighborhood I see the same 10-11 yr old walking around with what looks to me like an airsoft pistol in his hand. Not pointing it around or horsing around, just carrying it halfway sneakily in his hand. He's always accompanied by two of his friends. Creeps me the f out. I should probably yell at him to put that f ing gun away but hey, he'll figure it out. Or not.

If you told him it might save his life.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you told him it might save his life.

We're not short on humans in this day and age. I'm not really worried about that aspect of it but I might yell at the turd so I get to go to heaven and stuff.

 

[Yarome]

Creeps me the f out. I should probably yell at him to put that f ing gun away but hey, he'll figure it out. Or not.

Maybe it's the generation gap, and maybe it might someday be to my detriment, but just a known neighborhood kid bopping around like that wouldn't even cause me to raise an eyebrow.

Growing up, everyone had toy guns, and the whole point of "the good ones" was that they looked like the real ones. I get that times have changed, but we also can't forget that kids should be able to be "kids" without fear of some neighbor calling the cops on them.

I mean, these days we complain kids don't play outside enough... yet... when kids are allowed to play outside its, "but you can't do this, you can't do that, don't go there, you can't play with "so and so", no play fighting, no rough games, no ramps, ropes, rocks, sticks, no toys that might offend someone, you can't climb or stand on anything, you can't step or touch anyone elses property, or their pets..." and On... and On... and On.

All the "fun" park toys are gone, you can't even jump off the swings anymore and all the death slides have been replaced with shoulder high textured for low speed kiddy versions. Heck... most parks are so levelled and covered with so much cushioning material these days a kid can barely even find a real life mud puddle to play in these days.

Not long ago I was out on a walk with my granddaughter and took her down off the sidewalk to a culvert to see if we could find any polywogs or some cool bugs... and got chewed out by some Karen yelling at me I was trespassing on private property and threatening to call the cops for child endangerment. WTAF?

If I was a kid today, I would probably say, "what's the point!!?" too.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Maybe it's the generation gap, and maybe it might someday be to my detriment, but just a known neighborhood kid bopping around like that wouldn't even cause me to raise an eyebrow.

Growing up, everyone had toy guns, and the whole point of "the good ones" was that they looked like the real ones. I get that times have changed, but we also can't forget that kids should be able to be "kids" without fear of some neighbor calling the cops on them.

I mean, these days we complain kids don't play outside enough... yet... when kids are allowed to play outside its, "but you can't do this, you can't do that, don't go there, you can't play with "so and so", no play fighting, no rough games, no ramps, ropes, rocks, sticks, no toys that might offend someone, you can't climb or stand on anything, you can't step or touch anyone elses property, or their pets..." and On... and On... and On.

All the "fun" park toys are gone, you can't even jump off the swings anymore and all the death slides have been replaced with shoulder high textured for low speed kiddy versions. Heck... most parks are so levelled and covered with so much cushioning material these days a kid can barely even find a real life mud puddle to play in these days.

Not long ago I was out on a walk with my granddaughter and took her down off the sidewalk to a culvert to see if we could find any polywogs or some cool bugs... and got chewed out by some Karen yelling at me I was trespassing on private property and threatening to call the cops for child endangerment. WTAF?

If I was a kid today, I would probably say, "what's the point!!?" too.

To be honest, I barely did raise an eyebrow. Had he been actually playing I probably wouldn't have even noticed and sure wouldn't have thought of yelling at him/them.

 

[Alexx1401]

Lots to agree with there in your comment, but I'd have to draw the line at conjecture and mind reading.

Let me ask, have you ever mentally rehearsed what your actions would be if this or that situation ever plays out in front of you? No? Then please consider that some folks would declare you behind the power curve and ill-prepared to deal with any situation that might require you to un-holster.

Yes, you've done some rehearsing? Good. Now ask yourself whether some judgemental person - not a mind reader - might declare such a rehearsal to be a fantasy that you probably always hope for an opportunity to fulfill.

I had a co worker get REAL angry with me over this "kind of thing" while back. He asked me if I was in line at some place such as a bank and some scum pulls a gun to rob them. Would I shoot? I said no. He was easy to see fantasizing of being able to shoot said scum. I said if scum decides they want to herd me into some back area or such things change. If scum is taking money and leaving? NOT my problem. This clown went FAR beyond even that. He just decides these kids are going to rob some place so he shoots one of them multiple times. My "rehearsing" is my gun would have never come out of the holster. I would call 911. If the place my kid was at was near there I would be moving my vehicle to the front of that place. If needed put myself between these kids and my kid. This guy is going to have a LONG time behind bars to think about how he chose to handle this. I only post it because I hope some others who carry "may" think twice before playing out their fantasy with that gun they carry. Every time some gun owners does what this idiot did those who want to take our right to have them wave these stories to the public on why we should not have that right.

 

[Alexx1401]

Im baffled by this phenomenon of people walking around with a gun in hand is an ok idea....

Sadly a LOT of people play with these VERY real looking guns. It is VERY stupid to do so but, stupidity is often not painful. Kids playing with toy guns has lead to tragic deaths by LEO's shooting one since LONG before the net. Yet many kids still do it.
This clown decided to not only kill some kid who was doing something dumb but, also ruined his own life in one fell swoop. Choosing to draw a gun is something too many seem to fantasize about and then they get their chance it seldom goes the way they pictured that fantasy to play out.

 

[RVTECH]

Interesting update from the Seattle times:

There was a confrontation, and the 51-year-old allegedly pulled out a gun and shot one of the boys around 7:30 p.m., Black said. King County sheriff's deputies were coincidentally in the parking lot doing a training exercise when they heard the yelling and ensuing shots, she said.

The deputies were able to respond "within seconds" and attempt lifesaving measures, she said. The 51-year-old man was taken into custody, and it appears that he did not know the three 17-year-old boys, Black said Thursday morning.

 

[Yarome]

I had a co worker get REAL angry with me over this "kind of thing" while back. He asked me if I was in line at some place such as a bank and some scum pulls a gun to rob them. Would I shoot? I said no. He was easy to see fantasizing of being able to shoot said scum. I said if scum decides they want to herd me into some back area or such things change. If scum is taking money and leaving? NOT my problem. This clown went FAR beyond even that. He just decides these kids are going to rob some place so he shoots one of them multiple times. My "rehearsing" is my gun would have never come out of the holster. I would call 911. If the place my kid was at was near there I would be moving my vehicle to the front of that place. If needed put myself between these kids and my kid. This guy is going to have a LONG time behind bars to think about how he chose to handle this. I only post it because I hope some others who carry "may" think twice before playing out their fantasy with that gun they carry. Every time some gun owners does what this idiot did those who want to take our right to have them wave these stories to the public on why we should not have that right.

Respectfully, and just in my own opinion... this is the type of mental gymnastics and rhetoric that contributes to the problem. Not the solutions.

The whole, "unless you are personally under imminent threat, intervening is just stupid, irresponsible and trying to live out some hero fantasy." shtick.

In the given example, you have no idea how far the situation may escalate. There is clearly an imminent threat present. It may very well suddenly turn your direction and by then your options and time to react may be nil. Choosing not to intervene when you are fully capable of doing so and someone needlessly losses their life due to your inaction... is that something most people will have difficulty living with or is that just another.... "not my problem!" situation?

Take it a step further. Everyone makes it out just fine, but the same perp later commits another robbery and, that time, someone dies. You already gave them the green light to go do it again so... do you feel any responsibility that they weren't stopped before someone died(?)

Certainly it boils down to a personal choice, but I know one thing. If my loved one was seriously injured or killed while at the bank, and I learned that there was a person that was fully capable and had every opportunity to prevent that from happening, yet stood by and let it happen.... Yeah. I'm going to have serious issue with that.

Compliance/cooperation with bad elements is preached from on high. I get it. I also know it's fact that compliance is in no way a guarantee someone isn't going to lose their life. Some bad actors are simply "born bad" and their victims compliance in no way diminishes their desire to visit harm on others.

I for one... if a clear and reasonably safe opportunity presented itself... yet I ignore it and people die with my firearm tucked firmly in my shorts... that would severely wear on my psyche.

 

[Koda]

Choosing not to intervene when you are fully capable of doing so and someone needlessly losses their life due to your inaction... is that something most people will have difficulty living with or is that just another.... "not my problem!" situation?

I generally side with you on this but I also totally understand others who don't want to get involved indirectly due to what liberals have done to today's justice system regarding self defense. Even in the most righteous shoot the family can still sue you and the liberal courts will side with them. Intervention is wide open to ruining the rest of your life.

 

[lucusloc]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Batman. This guy was a security guard, which means (in most states) he has to have licensing and training that would have directly contradicted all his actions here. I do not specifically know what WA training requirements are, but if they do not cover not shooting unarmed people then they may want to reevaluate their training priorities. This guy needs to go to jail for a very long time for just being an abject idiot and succumbing so easily to preconceived biases that he would shoot an unarmed and compliant individual. Honestly I am interested to follow this case, just to see if the guy will double down on his justifications or if he is willing to accept that he is a moron and ask forgiveness for his stupidity.

 

[Koda]

This guy needs to go to jail for a very long time for just being an abject idiot and succumbing so easily to preconceived biases that he would shoot an unarmed and compliant individual.

Did we find out the deceased didn't have an [airsoft] gun in his belt?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Batman. This guy was a security guard, which means (in most states) he has to have licensing and training that would have directly contradicted all his actions here. I do not specifically know what WA training requirements are, but if they do not cover not shooting unarmed people then they may want to reevaluate their training priorities. This guy needs to go to jail for a very long time for just being an abject idiot and succumbing so easily to preconceived biases that he would shoot an unarmed and compliant individual. Honestly I am interested to follow this case, just to see if the guy will double down on his justifications or if he is willing to accept that he is a moron and ask forgiveness for his stupidity.

Is it a super-duper red herring? I still didn't click but was the fellow an off-duty unarmed guard (as most of them indeed are) or an off-duty armed guard?

 

[CountryGent]

Mall Ninjitsu mentality, with tragic consequences. I feel very badly for the family of the youth. If the incident is as described, the shooter is likely headed to PMITA prison and permanent prohibited person status.

 

[FATAL125]

bubblegum that dude and the donkey he rode in on!

Burn him at the stake and give the kids parents the matches!

We finally have teenagers in Renton that are NOT causing issues and Mr. I have something to prove Paul Blart D-bag mows one of them down...