National If 01 FFL carries AR uppers & lowers, can they put them together in shop and sell as rifle?

[arakboss]

If an 01 FFL carries complete AR uppers and complete AR lowers in their store, can they or the customer put them together in the store to allow the assembly to be transferred as a rifle? Or would that be considered some time of manufacturing and require another or different type of FFL license?

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[ACO]

The lower is the firearm. What you do with it once you buy it is irrelevant as ling as your construction is NFA compliant.

 

[Velzey]

That's mfg and they would need a different license

 

[arakboss]

That's mfg and they would need a different license

Would this also be the case if the customer brought in the upper?

 

[Velzey]

If the ffl holder puts the Lower and upper together in the place of business he is then mfg. Even if the customer brought in the upper.

 

[arakboss]

If the ffl holder puts the Lower and upper together in the place of business he is then mfg. Even if the customer brought in the upper.

What kind of shop could do this at the retail level, 07 shop?

 

[Velzey]

Type 07 license holder can do it.

 

[arakboss]

Type 07 license holder can do it.

Are gunsmiths like yourself usually Type 07?

 

[Velzey]

Most of them are usually

 

[arakboss]

Most of them are usually

Thank you for all the info.

 

[Skier]

Why would it be considered "manufacturing" just by mating an upper (not a firearm; treated no different than an accessory, as far as background check, etc) with a fully complete lower that is already considered a firearm, whether you add other parts to it or not?

 

[arakboss]

Why would it be considered "manufacturing" just by mating an upper (not a firearm; treated no different than an accessory, as far as background check, etc) with a fully complete lower that is already considered a firearm, whether you add other parts to it or not?

I don't know but so far we have two FFLs here, who indicated that is the case. And I communicated with two local FFLs who indicated something along the same lines.

 

[Unka-Boo]

doesnt it have to do with Federal excise tax?

 

[Skier]

doesnt it have to do with Federal excise tax?

Ah, taxes... Can't miss an excuse to tax, so that would make sense... Next thing you know someone will pass a bill with a little [intentional] "typo" in it, and we'll have an "exercise tax" too, so we can't even workout in our own home without paying someone. ;-)

I am still curious if anyone has details on the how and why. I mean, if it's a full lower and a full upper, such that all you need to do is insert two quick release pins and you have an assembled rifle, then it sure seems funny that someone in a shop can't do that for you, but you can buy both parts and do at home in 2 minutes.

 

[CamoDeafie]

@Skier I think its all about "constructive intent" as the ATF uses. I mean.. buying a complete lower requires the BG check, filling out the 4473 form, and paying tax on it (usually included in price?), and thats not a problem because technically its the firearm itself. Buying the upper at the same shop, and then putting it on your firearm works because you have the lower already passed bg check and paid for. But gun shop doing same thing need the 07 ffl because of "constructive intent"... which is why an 01 FFL can get into hot water with the ATF if they have a CNC machine, or tooling to turn 80% lowers into complete lowers. Its also how the ATF cracked down on "80% lower parties" in the past.
Edit; I could be way off base here, can @Velzey confirm or correct me?

 

[arakboss]

@Skier I think its all about "constructive intent" as the ATF uses. I mean.. buying a complete lower requires the BG check, filling out the 4473 form, and paying tax on it (usually included in price?), and thats not a problem because technically its the firearm itself. Buying the upper at the same shop, and then putting it on your firearm works because you have the lower already passed bg check and paid for. But gun shop doing same thing need the 07 ffl because of "constructive intent"... which is why an 01 FFL can get into hot water with the ATF if they have a CNC machine, or tooling to turn 80% lowers into complete lowers. Its also how the ATF cracked down on "80% lower parties" in the past.
Edit; I could be way off base here, can @Velzey confirm or correct me?

I would guess if the excise tax is paid on value of the firearm that the FFL would be dodging taxes by selling lower separate from upper and then slapping upper on lower to make a complete firearm. But my question was different in that I wanted them to put the upper on first than transfer as a rifle. At that point they could figure out the tax which would be higher and the government wins. But if the FFL wasn't a Type 07 they would be in trouble for manufacturing. And even if they were a Type 07 they might run in to problems with those in charge accusing the FFL of circumventing I-1639 or Federal age requirements to purchase a lower.

Here was my reason for asking the questions. I was thinking about assembling manual loading AR uppers to sell to those who are restricted by age or local laws from owning a semi-auto firearm. I did not want to get a Type 07 FFL and produce the entire firearm. So I was looking for a legal way to do this by selling just the upper and letting a local FFL figure out how to mate it with a lower so that it could be transferred as a rifle and available to those 18 and older regardless of the semi-auto bans that might be enforce in the area of the customer.

It sounds like that isn't an option for the 18-20 crowd but possibly for the elders 21 and over who can purchase a lower and assemble the firearm themselves.

 

[billdeserthills]

If an 01 FFL carries complete AR uppers and complete AR lowers in their store, can they or the customer put them together in the store to allow the assembly to be transferred as a rifle? Or would that be considered some time of manufacturing and require another or different type of FFL license?

Interestingly enough, 10 years ago when I had my FFL, it was illegal for me to assemble an AR-15 upper & lower--However it was legal for me to ask my helper to do it, as long as he was on a break (not being paid to assemble them)