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OldBroad44

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That is why you periodically leave them gifts and keep your distance from them for a while. Also, don’t forget about the fact that we have immunities to things that they were never introduced to, so having knowledge of that is beneficial and important. I would also bring with some magnifying glass
You would have greater immunity to stuff they don't have. Most of our epidemic diseases came from our domesticated animals.
 
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You would have greater immunity to stuff they don't have. Most of our epidemic diseases came from our domesticated animals.
That’s what I said... we have immunity to things that they don’t so I wouldn’t want to introduce them to something that I could be carrying but I’m immune to... think smallpox and horse blankets... I wouldn’t want to do that to them
 

The Heretic

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Thinking of this thread...and the fact that we had Archery in PE class the last two weeks...
I went out and shot a few rounds in my back yard....fun for sure.

If you haven't tried archery...you might be missing out.

Like I told my students , when I brought in my bows and arrows to class....
Archery can be traditional like mine...or modern with the compound bows that you shoot...
Either way , you will have fun...and its a nice way to exercise , along with practicing trust and responsibility.
Andy

A conventional bow is problematic for me due to my injured right shoulder. I have a crossbow.
 

NW Backpacker

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If I have to carry it:
AR-15 and 1000 rounds of armor piercing 5.56 ammo, plus cleaning kit, oil, spare parts kit, 50 pack of ear plugs. :)
Lightweight .22 LR survival rifle and 3000 rounds ammo.
 
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Firstly, I would kiss the ground because there would be no NFA!! :D

I would like a 12 g shotty and 22LR combo with 1000 slug shots and 4000 22LR rounds as my EDC against the biguns and smalluns. For a sidearm, a 6 inch 44 mag revolver with a 1000 rounds all hardcast/ solid copper. Vegetable seeds. A Bowie knife and axe. A single wheel carrier. From the environment once I set up camp, I would make a bow and many arrows to be my primary weapon against predators/ hunting and to conserve ammo supply. Assuming the water supply on Earth will be pure, I should not need to worry about filtering it. I think that should help me survive the first year.
 

OldBroad44

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Seeds anyone? Not sure which ones without more research.
Corn, beans, and squash were the main agricultural crops in N America in pre European settlement days. The squash was mostly dried sliced younger squash. The fully mature squash or pumpkins didn't store well and were seasonal, as were summer squash. West coast indians, however, did not practice such agriculture. They did tend and probably somewhat genetically shape the plants they used, such as oak trees for acorns, camas, and wapato.

When white settlers traveled the Oregon trail and settled in W Oregon, they first grew corn as their main staple, even though they preferred wheat. Because growing wheat requires a fine seed bed meaning cleared land plowed nicely with draft animals, plows and harrows. When they got to "the Oregon (territory)" they ringed and killed the trees in their field. Then they dug circles and planted hills of corn beneath the dead trees. It would be years before they got all the stumps out of the field and could plant wheat. Below is lyrics to a song I learned from 4th generation descendents of Alcea homesteaders back in the 80s when I lived near Alcea briefly. It clearly dates to the generation of those homesteaders. Jonny cake, by the way, is fried corn mush. No door knobs or door hinges or milk pail if you just came over the Oregon Trail. Door was held on by leather "hinges". There was limited space in wagons and metal was heavy. Glass was a luxury. You probably didn't have even have a piece of mica. a piece of oiled paper would have to serve. Or skip windows. Making holes for windows was complicated.

Alcea Girls

Chorus:
Alcea girls, listen to my noise.
Don't you marry them Oregon boys.
If you do your life it will be
Johnny cake and venison, that's all you'll see.

He'll take you to a shack with wooden walls.
Probably got no windows at all.
Button for a knob and hanging door.
Shakes for a roof and mud for a floor.

Oregon boy, milks into a gourd.
Sh!ts in a hole and covers with a board.
Some has a little and lots has none.
That's how things in the Oregon run.
 
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OldBroad44

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Everyone seems to be assuming the ethics of hunting should be the same as today, when hunting is more a sport than a matter of survival. There have been multiple references to not killing a mammoth when alone because you can't make use of all the meat. I agree about not hunting a mammoth alone with a spear, because its dangerous. But if it was 15,000 years ago and an elk presented itself, and there were plenty of elk around, I'd shoot it. And I'd take as much as I could use and leave the rest. Coyotes and foxes gotta eat too. Or cave bears and dire wolves, whatever. Just because I didn't eat the entire elk dies not mean it would be wasted. If there weren't many elk, and I wasn't starving, I'd probably skip the shot at the elk. There would be no game laws. So I would establish my own rules that fit the situation.

In some states when I was a kid, you could hunt male or female deer any time of year on your own property. If you are a farmer, deer are pests. Basically like rats, only bigger.

My dad as a kid took a lot of deer by shooting them in the head with a .22 rifle. It was on their farm in Missouri. I don't know whether it was legal then and there. I doubt if he shot deer only in season or only bucks. I do know that he had parents and five hungry siblings, and they needed the meat; it was the depression. Unethical because it doesn't follow ODFW rules about hunting deer in Oregon in 2021? I don't think so.
 
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The Heretic

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Everyone seems to be assuming the ethics of hunting should be the same as today, when hunting is more a sport than a matter of survival.

The ethics would not change much for me - waste as little meat as possible, and even with a rifle it is not a trivial task to shoot and kill a mammoth.

aph-infographics-comparing-height-260nw-1241263612.jpg
 

OldBroad44

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The ethics would not change much for me - waste as little meat as possible, and even with a rifle it is not a trivial task to shoot and kill a mammoth.

View attachment 865430
Never saw the mammoth and elephant side by side. Amazing Clovis managed to hunt mammoth at all. In a way my ethics wouldn't change with respect to mammoth. My ethics say stay away from anything that can crush me into a stain on the path.
 
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bgdawgrr

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Hmmm, Firearm I’m going simple and take my Saiga 12. Lots of slugs, #1Buck and birdshot covers almost everything.
In this scenario, can’t see needing to take a shot past 100 yds, it’s semi auto and fast reloads for defense purposes. All forms of game are not acclimated to the danger of gunfire, so sound not an issue.
I’d also presume it would be easier to stalk animals since long range projectiles are not in existence, so my tech is a huge advantage.
 
Corn, beans, and squash were the main agricultural crops in N America in pre European settlement days. The squash was mostly dried sliced younger squash. The fully mature squash or pumpkins didn't store well and were seasonal, as were summer squash. West coast indians, however, did not practice such agriculture. They did tend and probably somewhat genetically shape the plants they used, such as oak trees for acorns, camas, and wapato.

When white settlers traveled the Oregon trail and settled in W Oregon, they first grew corn as their main staple, even though they preferred wheat. Because growing wheat requires a fine seed bed meaning cleared land plowed nicely with draft animals, plows and harrows. When they got to "the Oregon (territory)" they ringed and killed the trees in their field. Then they dug circles and planted hills of corn beneath the dead trees. It would be years before they got all the stumps out of the field and could plant wheat. Below is lyrics to a song I learned from 4th generation descendents of Alcea homesteaders back in the 80s when I lived near Alcea briefly. It clearly dates to the generation of those homesteaders. Jonny cake, by the way, is fried corn mush. No door knobs or door hinges or milk pail if you just came over the Oregon Trail. Door was held on by leather "hinges". There was limited space in wagons and metal was heavy. Glass was a luxury. You probably didn't have even have a piece of mica. a piece of oiled paper would have to serve. Or skip windows. Making holes for windows was complicated.

Alcea Girls

Chorus:
Alcea girls, listen to my noise.
Don't you marry them Oregon boys.
If you do your life it will be
Johnny cake and venison that's all you'll see.

He'll take you to a shack with wooden walls.
Probably got no windows at all.
Button for a knob and hanging door.
Shakes for a roof and mud for a floor.

Oregon boy, milks into a gourd.
Sh!ts in a hole and covers with a board.
Some has a little and lots has none.
That's how things in the Oregon run.

No cows in the Americas ? pre-Columbus IIRC.

Curious if Clovis/pre-Clovis had domesticated farm animals goats/sheep/pigs/chickens kind of animals.

Clovis had domesticated dogs.
 
15,000 years ago would be modern humans. Pre-Clovis. Judging from size of points they had spears, not bows. And most likely came from Beringia down the west coast by boat. There's still controversy about this vs the Clovis First theory. But each decade there is more evidence for human settlement of NA predating Clovis by thousands of years. Anyway, if you believe Clovis First, part of that model is that there would be no humans here in 15,000.

My guess is the most dangerous creatures to you would be humans. And a gun firing would announce the presence of something new and bring any humans searching on full alert.

It takes a groomed path to support the use of wheeled vehicles. A canoe or rowboat set down on a stretch of river might be a better option. And with kit more aimed at quiet fishing and trapping and hiding rather than hunting. With hunting by trapping or bow rather than firearm.

You would be unlikely to win the favor of humans by playing healer. Even if you are already familiar with the healing herbs in some specific area now, those may not have existed then. Modern drugs have the same ussues as ammo. No resupply. The Younger Dryas, a sudden return to glacial conditions for a couple thousand years or so, happened between then and now and rearranged the flora and fauna quite a bit. A viable human community would likely have seriously competent healers of their own. You might be able to set broken bones or sew up cuts. But would likely be killed if the patient died. Contagious diseases to the extent they existed would be different from those you know anything about, even if you are a modern doctor.

The real contribution you might be able to make might be bow making and use. pre-clovis may not have had bows at all. If they did, their bows were unlikely to be as sophisticated or powerful as the recurved bows made of wood, bone, and hide of the Mongols. Or the English long bows made of Yew, with each being part heart wood and part ordinary wood to create a composite effect. So if you know how to use and make such bows, that might be your ticket to survival. If you survived the first encounter. If a young female, you would probably be enslaved for a few years to life, no matter what you did or didn't know. But the upside is that you would be way more likely to survive the first encounter.

Boat/canoe idea is brilliant!

Would that be an acceptable mode to carry gear thru whatever “portal” @The Heretic?
 

OldBroad44

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No cows in the Americas ? pre-Columbus IIRC.

Curious if Clovis/pre-Clovis had domesticated farm animals goats/sheep/pigs/chickens kind of animals.

Clovis had domesticated dogs.
No cows. No domesticated goats, sheep, or pigs. No domesticated animals 15,000 years ago in the Americas except dogs, and those are descended from Eurasian wolves, not American wolves. The dogs were domesticated in Eurasia and made the trip from Eurasia to Beringia and into the Americas along with their humans of the first migration. no signs of agriculture in the Americas until something like about 8,000 years ago. Major centers for origin of ag in Americas were one or two in Peru, another in Mexico, and a minor one in E US. Domesticated animals were turkey, muscovy duck, guinea pig, llama, alpaca. None in N America. No large animals big enough to ride with domesticable behavior patterns survived the Younger Dryas cold period about 12,000 years back and were around about 8000 years ago when the original Americans started domesticating plants and animals. North American domesticated plants were corn, potatoes, tomatoes, quinoa, other Andean uproot crops, beans, tepary beans, four species of squash, tobacco, and Jerusalem artichokes. Corn was domesticated in Mexico. Many greens were gathered from the wild or grew as weeds in fields and were also used.
 
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OldBroad44

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No cows. No goats, sheep, or pigs. No domesticated animals 15,000 years ago in the Americas except dogs, and those are descended from Eurasian wolves, not American wolves. The dogs were domesticated in Eurasia and made the trip from Eurasia to Beringia and into the Americas along with their humans of the first migration. no signs of agriculture in the Americas until something like about 8,000 years ago. Major centers for origin of ag in Americas were one or two in Peru, another in Mexico, and a minor one in E US. Domesticated animals were turkey, muscovy duck, guinea pig, llama, alpaca. None in N America. No large animals big enough to ride with domesticable behavior patterns survived the Younger Dryas cold period about 12,000 years back and were around about 8000 years ago when the original Americans started domesticating plants and animals. North American domesticated plants were corn, potatoes, tomatoes, quinoa, other Andean root crops, common beans, tepary beans, four species of squash, tobacco, and Jerusalem artichokes. Corn was domesticated in Mexico.
 

tac

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What if went you went back in time... and you killed someone from your family tree...would that mean that you now no longer are around either....?

Or are we working with the multiple timeline , theory of time travel...?
Andy

The implication in your statement is the the person you addressed this comment to is actually the end-link in an indigenous trail of ancestry.

What are the chances of that unless he or she is purely native American?

Time to read Graham Hancock's provoke-thoughting tome - 'Before America', and give some consideration to the mega-disaster that befell North america about 12,000 years ago that gave rise to the Younger Dryas.
 

OldBroad44

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The implication in your statement is the the person you addressed this comment to is actually the end-link in an indigenous trail of ancestry.

What are the chances of that unless he or she is purely native American?

Time to read Graham Hancock's provoke-thoughting tome - 'Before America', and give some consideration to the mega-disaster that befell North america about 12,000 years ago that gave rise to the Younger Dryas.
I accept most of evolution with equanimity. But I mourn the Younger Dryas extinction event. All those huge animals such as mammoths, giant sloths, saber toothed cats, cave bears, etc. That we missed seeing or getting eaten by by only 12,000 years. But then, Neanderthals and some other close human relatives were actually still around in Eurasia then too.
 

tac

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I accept most of evolution with equanimity. But I mourn the Younger Dryas extinction event. All those huge animals such as mammoths, giant sloths, saber toothed cats, cave bears, etc. That we missed seeing or getting eaten by by only 12,000 years. But then, Neanderthals and some other close human relatives were actually still around in Eurasia then too.
It's fine to mourn them at a distance in time. However, coming across a Dire Wolf - four times bigger than the present-day version, or a Smilodon, whilst out doing the shop might alter your degree of woe somewhat. Even a giant sloth - the same size as a reasonably sized U-Haul - could ruin your plans if it sat on you accidentally whilst it was munching at the local fruit tree.
 
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