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How does a private gun owner protect himself when selling/buying guns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by nextbest, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. nextbest

    nextbest Eugene Or. Member

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    I did some searching but didnt find any topics on this subject, sorry if its a duplicate.
    If I sell or trade a gun to someone I dont know, am I responsible to know if this person is legally able to own a gun? How do I transfer ownership to this person so the gun is no longer registered to me? I have heard that when buying a gun I can call the state police with the searal number to see if its stolen, anyone have feedback on this? Any recommended reading would be great. Thanks for taking the time to read my post. :)
     
  2. Kaltbluter

    Kaltbluter Eugene Member 2015 Volunteer

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  3. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    When selling to a private party you can make a bill of sale that states that the gun is not stolen, the buyer is legally able to buy the gun, and whatever info you need. Then have them sign it. There is a form for this in the NWFA Resourses menu at the top of the page. I have used this one a few times and I think that it includes all the info needed. Also you can sell the gun through an ffl for a fee if you want
     
  4. Kaltbluter

    Kaltbluter Eugene Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Another thing you can do when selling is to stipulate that the buyer must have a valid CHL. It decreases your pool of buyers by quite a bit but at least you know that the person you sell to isn't a felon.
     
  5. KENOC

    KENOC Portland area Member

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    This seems worthless if you must have the gun in your possession? So if you buy it, then call to see if it is stolen, you are screwed and lose all that money? That makes no sense, why not call and see if it is stolen before buying it?
     
  6. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Always check ID (and age) when selling.
     
  7. Kaltbluter

    Kaltbluter Eugene Member 2015 Volunteer

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    I agree, it is pretty worthless after the money is already out of your pocket. Unless you plan on using the gun for your carry or for home defense. If you end up using the gun to defend yourself in an otherwise legal shoot but then it turns out it was stolen you could be facing some serious problems.
     
  8. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Who told you that you need the firearm in your possession?
     
  9. Kaltbluter

    Kaltbluter Eugene Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Quote below is pasted in from a different forum.

    I know the guy who posted this, so I'm sure it is what he was told by OSP. It is not just someone making stuff up.



     
  10. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Oh, I've used the service before and never been told that. I have been advised by OSP to check serials before purchasing, by having it in your possession, they probably mean have the gun in front of you.
     
  11. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    I have used the service as well and did not need the gun in my possesion
     
  12. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    When SELLING I always tell the prospective buyer "Hey, I'll bring it over to your place to show it to you" - amazing how many are suddenly not interested. When BUYING I have NEVER had a problem going to their house to look and buy - remember if you are not comfortable in the neighborhood then drive on.
     
  13. KENOC

    KENOC Portland area Member

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    This works out well for you as long as the other person is not cautious like you are...lol..but if you were the OTHER person, a deal would never get done because you would each being insisting on going to the other's house to do the deal...think about it. :laugh:
     
  14. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    they mean have the gun in front of you.

    :thumbup:
     
  15. OreGunSun

    OreGunSun PDX/Clackamas Member

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    I am not an Attorney - but since you are in Oregon - if you want to read the Statute dealing with Firearms
    ORS 166 ---Offenses Against Public Order;Firearms and Other Weapons ; Racketeering http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

    As well if you don't have a copy of OFF ( Oregon Firearm Federation ) I would get one - "Understanding Oregon's Gun Laws - Updated" by Kevin Starrett.

    The problem with laws is that they are subject to interpretation by a LEO, and the ADA or DA and then a Judge.

    166.470 Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms. (1) Unless relief has been granted under ORS 166.274, 18 U.S.C. 925(c) or the expunction laws of this state or an equivalent law of another jurisdiction, a person may not intentionally sell, deliver or otherwise transfer any firearm when the transferor knows or reasonably should know that the recipient:

    (a) Is under 18 years of age;

    (b) Has been convicted of a felony or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a felony;

    (c) Has any outstanding felony warrants for arrest;

    (d) Is free on any form of pretrial release for a felony;

    (e) Was committed to the Department of Human Services under ORS 426.130;

    (f) After January 1, 1990, was found to be mentally ill and subject to an order under ORS 426.130 that the person be prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm as a result of that mental illness; or

    (g) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor involving violence or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a misdemeanor involving violence within the previous four years. As used in this paragraph, “misdemeanor involving violence” means a misdemeanor described in ORS 163.160, 163.187, 163.190, 163.195 or 166.155 (1)(b).

    (2) A person may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer any firearm that the person knows or reasonably should know is stolen.

    (3) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not prohibit:

    (a) The parent or guardian, or another person with the consent of the parent or guardian, of a minor from transferring to the minor a firearm, other than a handgun; or

    (b) The temporary transfer of any firearm to a minor for hunting, target practice or any other lawful purpose.

    (4) Violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor. [Amended by 1989 c.839 §3; 1991 c.67 §40; 1993 c.735 §11; 2001 c.828 §2; 2003 c.577 §7]


    Again I am not an Attorney but how it reads -
    when the transferor knows or reasonably should know that the recipient:
    If I read this to me unless, I personally knew a person intimately enough (Friend or Family) to know if they had a Felony record or insane or 166:1a-g. I can verify that a person is over 18 ( but I don't think that I am liable if they used fake ID)

    If I am not a LEO or part of the Correction or Legal system - it is hard for me to verify the other info - With HIPPA requirements for release of medical info and privacy in medical records makes the Mental Health and the DHS, hard to verify. SO unless it is family it is hard for the burden of the state to prove that you knew that a friend was a felon or insane at some point.

    I think that your risk is greater of buying a stolen weapon - proving that you bought it is easy. The burden of proof is high for the state to prove that you knew someone was a felon or insane. The other challenge is the state has to prove intent to sell, transfer or deliver to a Minor or Felon.

    I think that a transaction FTF with other members of a Firearms forum is safer than a Craigslist transaction ( Craigslist people - I have found to be kind of Flaky)

    My transactions with others on the firearm oriented forums , the people have been solid and showed up on time, etc.
    As well before I meet some - I normally have had phone conversation before I agree to meet. Then before any transaction FTF is completed, I have the ability to walk away.

    Just my .02 I am not an Attorney. If you really want to cover your six then buy/sell contingent to transfer through an OR FFL dealer.
     
  16. OreGunSun

    OreGunSun PDX/Clackamas Member

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    What information was gathered from you? Just the serial or did they want your name and the name of the seller?

    I am just wondering if you end up in another database - that one day could become part of a Federal database.

    Do they give you a case number if it later turns up stolen?
    Are you protected if it does turn up stolen?

    Commonsense is not so common anymore. When a legal CCW permit holder gets arrested I guess that anything is fair game.
     
  17. OreGunSun

    OreGunSun PDX/Clackamas Member

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    Other things can be done is ask for proof of ownership of the weapon - I keep all my receipts or bills of sale in my gun safe all in one place. ( This is something that many people can come up with as it is often needed for warranty work and insurance) -it also protects you from a stolen weapon if they can provide proof of ownership - Most retail gun shop receipts have your name and address on them.
     
  18. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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  19. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'd feel pretty comfortable selling a handgun to anyone who has shown me their concealed carry permit.

    Years ago I phoned the local Sheriff to ask them to run the serial number of a gun I wanted to buy. They said I had to buy the gun and bring it in before they's check to see if it was stolen. Had it been, the loss would have been mine...
     
  20. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    Im not positive but I dont think this is required anymore. I ran a gun of mine about a month ago and they didn't ask any questions except the serial number