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Heating alternatives
- Thread Starter fredridge
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I've done HVAC for a living for just about 30 years. I hold an Oregon state boiler/pressure vessel license as well as a limited electric license, I also hold certifications for combustion analysis and making adjustments. In short, I know of which I speak...
Do NOT use gas-fired "camping", "outdoor patio" or "construction" heaters in an enclosed dwelling... they're OK for shoet-term heating a tent, patio, or construction site because they're already drafty and there's generally plenty of air exchange.
You'll very possibly get carbon-monoxide poisoning, which can build up cumulatively in your body over time or all in one dose if it's concentrated enough, and we'll be hearing about your death in the news. Your cells absorb CO several hundred times more readily than oxygen, you asphyxiate at the cellular level... I'm telling you, DON'T go there!
As to your other question... there's no "$500 fix" for the situation you've lined out, spend the $500 on a moving van and move somewhere else if your landlord won't upgrade the heating.
Do NOT use gas-fired "camping", "outdoor patio" or "construction" heaters in an enclosed dwelling... they're OK for shoet-term heating a tent, patio, or construction site because they're already drafty and there's generally plenty of air exchange.
You'll very possibly get carbon-monoxide poisoning, which can build up cumulatively in your body over time or all in one dose if it's concentrated enough, and we'll be hearing about your death in the news. Your cells absorb CO several hundred times more readily than oxygen, you asphyxiate at the cellular level... I'm telling you, DON'T go there!
As to your other question... there's no "$500 fix" for the situation you've lined out, spend the $500 on a moving van and move somewhere else if your landlord won't upgrade the heating.
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I've done HVAC for a living for just about 30 years. I hold an Oregon state boiler/pressure vessel license as well as a limited electric license, I also hold certifications for combustion analysis and making adjustments. In short, I know of which I speak...
Do NOT use gas-fired "camping", "outdoor patio" or "construction" heaters in an enclosed dwelling... they're OK for shoet-term heating a tent, patio, or construction site because they're already drafty and there's generally plenty of air exchange.
You'll very possibly get carbon-monoxide poisoning, which can build up cumulatively in your body over time or all in one dose if it's concentrated enough, and we'll be hearing about your death in the news. Your cells absorb CO several hundred times more readily than oxygen, you asphyxiate at the cellular level... I'm telling you, DON'T go there!
As to your other question... there's no "$500 fix" for the situation you've lined out, spend the $500 on a moving van and move somewhere else if your landlord won't upgrade the heating.
Yep propane = NO and depending on city/county air quality standards it can be a no go on wood along with high cost of pellet option cause they need to be certified and installed by a pro for insurance purposes. Definitely not going to stay in the $500 range unless you want to wrap up in an electric blanket and have a long extension cord for traversing the house......LOL.Member 34319
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Plastic sheeting to isolate living room. Live in living room. Use fireplace.
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@Stomper is right.
CO preferentially binds to the hemoglobin, which then doesn't release it to the cells. The O2 transport of your blood gets reduced at the rate of exposure. It can also poison the cellular mitochondria. The fix for CO poisoning is breathing pure oxygen, and depending on your exposure, may not be successful.
Problem is, if you are exposed and ignore the headaches and nausea, CO poisoning makes you profoundly stupid because of lack of O2 in your body.
If you think you've been exposed and have the symptoms, a quick "litmus" test is to prick your finger and look at your blood droplet on white tissue. If it is a bright red, versus the firebrick red/crimson that blood normally is, you *may* have been exposed.
To improve heating (or how warm your house feels)
CO preferentially binds to the hemoglobin, which then doesn't release it to the cells. The O2 transport of your blood gets reduced at the rate of exposure. It can also poison the cellular mitochondria. The fix for CO poisoning is breathing pure oxygen, and depending on your exposure, may not be successful.
Problem is, if you are exposed and ignore the headaches and nausea, CO poisoning makes you profoundly stupid because of lack of O2 in your body.
If you think you've been exposed and have the symptoms, a quick "litmus" test is to prick your finger and look at your blood droplet on white tissue. If it is a bright red, versus the firebrick red/crimson that blood normally is, you *may* have been exposed.
To improve heating (or how warm your house feels)
- Seal off / restrict as many leaks as possible:
- Get the 3M clear plastic window seals to add an additional layer of insulation to your window
- Roll up a towel and put it at the bottom of every door that opens to the outside
- Seal off any other places where cold air can get in.
- Section off rooms like @Reno says
- use plastic sheeting, hang blankets (actually looks better) or install doors in hallways
- use a small summer fan, aim it up at the ceiling and circulate the air. Breaking the heat stratification really makes a difference. Baseboard heating uses laminar air flow and is a very inefficient heat mechanism.
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My house is about 2400sqft.
original gas furnace went out so I grabbed a few $100 electric heaters while I looked for options.
Found out I only really need 3 plus a small one to heat the house comfortably.
1 in the basement
1 in the kitchen/living room area
1 in the master bedroom/bathroom
1 small one in the kids (20+) room
found out my added electric bill was 1/4 of what I was paying for in gas so I never bothered to replace it.
Granted I am/was an electrician and know for sure the circuits they are all on will handle the load but if you have the math and sciences down you could figure that out with an online calculator and a little time.
*** I have no carpet in my house, all hardwood or tile so I don't worry about fires that way and I don't stack flammables near them.
YMMV
original gas furnace went out so I grabbed a few $100 electric heaters while I looked for options.
Found out I only really need 3 plus a small one to heat the house comfortably.
1 in the basement
1 in the kitchen/living room area
1 in the master bedroom/bathroom
1 small one in the kids (20+) room
found out my added electric bill was 1/4 of what I was paying for in gas so I never bothered to replace it.
Granted I am/was an electrician and know for sure the circuits they are all on will handle the load but if you have the math and sciences down you could figure that out with an online calculator and a little time.
*** I have no carpet in my house, all hardwood or tile so I don't worry about fires that way and I don't stack flammables near them.
YMMV
- Thread Starter
- #8
I was told catalytic heaters here ok for indoor use.
Something like this
Bluegrass Living Vent-Free Dual Fuel Gas Stove 25,000 BTU, Model# QNSD250T | Northern Tool
Something like this
Bluegrass Living Vent-Free Dual Fuel Gas Stove 25,000 BTU, Model# QNSD250T | Northern Tool
I've done HVAC for a living for just about 30 years. I hold an Oregon state boiler/pressure vessel license as well as a limited electric license, I also hold certifications for combustion analysis and making adjustments. In short, I know of which I speak...
Do NOT use gas-fired "camping", "outdoor patio" or "construction" heaters in an enclosed dwelling... they're OK for shoet-term heating a tent, patio, or construction site because they're already drafty and there's generally plenty of air exchange.
You'll very possibly get carbon-monoxide poisoning, which can build up cumulatively in your body over time or all in one dose if it's concentrated enough, and we'll be hearing about your death in the news. Your cells absorb CO several hundred times more readily than oxygen, you asphyxiate at the cellular level... I'm telling you, DON'T go there!
As to your other question... there's no "$500 fix" for the situation you've lined out, spend the $500 on a moving van and move somewhere else if your landlord won't upgrade the heating.
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read the manual about ventilation incoming and outgoing.......
I wouldn't see much benefit if you are exhausting the heat with the fumes.......
No need to spend $100 each, just go for a cheap heater. They all heat the same. Interesting video on it.
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I sell firewood. In my travels I see lots of inserts and stoves that are free for the taking.
Put an add in Craigs list. Looking for an insert.
The things you are looking for are a shroud big enough to seal the fireplace opening, And be sure it has all its fire brick in place. The fire brick can be replaced if its missing. Where the shroud meets the brick be sure to pack it with insulation, and make an air tight seal. That will help it draw the smoke.
The problem with inserts is it costs more to clean them and you don't see the fire. People have them taken out and want rid of them. DR
Put an add in Craigs list. Looking for an insert.
The things you are looking for are a shroud big enough to seal the fireplace opening, And be sure it has all its fire brick in place. The fire brick can be replaced if its missing. Where the shroud meets the brick be sure to pack it with insulation, and make an air tight seal. That will help it draw the smoke.
The problem with inserts is it costs more to clean them and you don't see the fire. People have them taken out and want rid of them. DR
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The process for combustion requires air, fuel, and an ignition source.
Catalytic heater or not, if you reduce the levels of combustion air inside your dwelling faster than it can be replaced, you will have an incomplete combustion process that WILL produce CO.
If the electric bill is too high, set your heating to 65*F and wear warmer clothes. It's better than assuming room temperature.
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Few options from the internet - I have no experience with any of these myself. Install a couple of CO alarms in your house if you use these fuel-burning appliances indoors. If not using your fireplace, make sure your flue damper is closed so warm air isn't going up the chimney - might stuff a piece of fiberglass batt insulation up there too - but don't light a fire without removing it first!
1 - Wood burning fireplace insert looks pretty good if you can burn wood. Anyone have a guess on installation cost?
User manual for that insert:
2 - Fireplace heat exchanger (here are a few I found on internet - look around, may be better ones - would need a generator (or battery with inverter?) to run the fan during a power outage):
hastyheat.com
hastyheat.com
hastyheat.com
No fan for this one, but probably less heat:
hastyheat.com
3 - Kerosene Heater rated for indoors as mentioned by someone above. Where can you buy kerosene?
4 - Mr. Buddy heater: rated for indoors - use extreme caution to avoid CO poisoning as stated above. I'd want 2 CO detectors in the house if using this one or the Kerosene Heater above.
5 - A direct vent wall heater would work, gets combustion air from outside, and discharges products of combustion outside. Available in NG or propane. Some models available via Amazon. Williams brand was good in the past - do not know about recent ones. Probably about the cheapest and safest option for a permanent installation. I'd still use 2 CO detectors in case combustion chamber cracks.
www.williamscomfortprod.com
Many other brands available:
Ask these guys what they know:
www.portlandfireplaceshop.com
If not using your fireplace, make sure your flue damper is closed so warm air isn't going up the chimney - might stuff a piece of fiberglass batt insulation up there too - but don't light a fire without removing it first! 1 - Wood burning fireplace insert looks pretty good if you can burn wood. Anyone have a guess on installation cost?
Amazon.com: Vogelzang TR004 Colonial EPA Wood Stove: Home & Kitchen
Amazon.com: Vogelzang TR004 Colonial EPA Wood Stove: Home & Kitchen
www.amazon.com
User manual for that insert:
2 - Fireplace heat exchanger (here are a few I found on internet - look around, may be better ones - would need a generator (or battery with inverter?) to run the fan during a power outage):
24GR Fireplace Grate Heat Exchanger. Fireback AndIron Blower Rack Heatilator Furnace Wood Gas Pellet
Discover the elegance, efficiency, and durability behind our fully-welded steel fireplace heat exchangers that turn your fireplace hearth into a hot air blowing furnace to heat your home. Designed to have the ultimate blend of appeal, efficiency, customization, fit and functionality. We...
hastyheat.com
20HTH24D Hard Times Heater, Fireplace Grate Heater Furnace Tube Blower AndIron Heat Exchanger
DISCOVER THE ELEGANCE, EFFICIENCY, AND DURABILITY BEHIND OUR FULLY-WELDED STEEL FIREPLACE HEAT EXCHANGERS THAT TURN YOUR FIREPLACE HEARTH INTO A HOT AIR BLOWING FURNACE TO HEAT YOUR HOME. DESIGNED TO HAVE THE ULTIMATE BLEND OF APPEAL, EFFICIENCY, CUSTOMIZATION, FIT AND FUNCTIONALITY.WE LITERALLY...
hastyheat.com
14GR20TD Fireplace Grate Heat Exchanger Hot Air Blower Tubular Log Rack
Turn your fireplace into a furnace with the ultimate blend of appeal and functionality. Please leave a note about building components with custom sizes in the shopping cart 14" wide, 20" tall, 20" deep bottom, 16" deep top fireplace heater grate (You can use a cardboard box of this size to test...
hastyheat.com
No fan for this one, but probably less heat:
Tiny Stainless Grate (Fanless)
HastyHeat Tiny Stainless Grate (Fanless) is: Built to fit within 14" wide, Tubes available in sizes 14",16", 20", or 24" Tall/Deep Legs allow for an additional 3" of adjustable height Option to add removable Ashtray for faster cleanup! Option to add Full Fireback for the full HASTYHEAT EXPERIENCE!
hastyheat.com
3 - Kerosene Heater rated for indoors as mentioned by someone above. Where can you buy kerosene?
Amazon.com: Dyna-Glo WK24WH 23,800 BTU Indoor Kerosene Convection Heater, Ivory: Home & Kitchen
Amazon.com: Dyna-Glo WK24WH 23,800 BTU Indoor Kerosene Convection Heater, Ivory: Home & Kitchen
www.amazon.com
4 - Mr. Buddy heater: rated for indoors - use extreme caution to avoid CO poisoning as stated above. I'd want 2 CO detectors in the house if using this one or the Kerosene Heater above.
5 - A direct vent wall heater would work, gets combustion air from outside, and discharges products of combustion outside. Available in NG or propane. Some models available via Amazon. Williams brand was good in the past - do not know about recent ones. Probably about the cheapest and safest option for a permanent installation. I'd still use 2 CO detectors in case combustion chamber cracks.
Direct Vent Detail Page - Williams Comfort Products
Direct Vent Furnaces are compact, space-saving furnaces featuring simple, low-cost installation. Attractive and economical, Direct-Vent furnaces are a popular choice for heating the home. 14,000, 22,000 and 30,000 Btu/hr. sizes.
www.williamscomfortprod.com
Many other brands available:
Ask these guys what they know:
Portland Fireplace Shop – Everything Your Hearth Desires
Portland Fireplace shop is Portland's Leader in Fireplace Doors, Gas, Wood and Pellet Stoves and Inserts and Fireplace accessories.
www.portlandfireplaceshop.com
If you decide to go the campfire in the living room route and it's tempting as it's the cheapest way, make sure you use rocks for the fire ring that DON'T come out of the river. ...and be aware that you might not get your deposit back. Other than that, I'd just listen to Stomper
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