National HAVE LEGALLY OWNED AUTOMATIC WEAPONS BEEN USED IN CRIME?

[The Heretic]

I did not put this in the NFA sub-forum because - IMO - it has more to do with laws, crime and somewhat gun control, than it does with discussion of NFA firearms in and of themselves.

If mods think I am off-base in that opinion then as they see fit they can move it to the NFA sub-forum.

Have Legally Owned Automatic Weapons Been Used in Crime?

Did you know, most homicides involving firearms usually involve large-caliber revolvers? Even in gang-related incidents, use of automatic weapons are rare.

gunmagwarehouse.com

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[Member 18201]

HAVE LEGALLY OWNED AUTOMATIC WEAPONS BEEN USED IN CRIME?


.............

Yes.

Once by a Police Officer ( !!?)

9/15/1988
Type: MAC-11 .380ACP submachinegun
Registered: Yes
Lawfully possessed:Yes
Circumstances: Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber smg to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman.


....and another time.......by a Police Officer....


4/2002
Type: MP5 submachinegun
Registered: Yes
Lawfully possessed: Yes
Circumstances: Police officer Edward Lutes went on a rampage with a police-issue MP5, killing 5 neighbors (in two separate homes), before killing himself with a handgun.
Fatalities (excluding perpetrator): 5 (Not a mass shooting as the victims were specifically targeted in their homes)

Machineguns Used In Crimes, Post-NFA | The Zelman Partisans

 

[The Heretic]

Yes.

Once by a Police Officer ( !!?)

9/15/1988
Type: MAC-11 .380ACP submachinegun
Registered: Yes
Lawfully possessed:Yes
Circumstances: Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber smg to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman.


....and another time.......by a Police Officer....


4/2002
Type: MP5 submachinegun
Registered: Yes
Lawfully possessed: Yes
Circumstances: Police officer Edward Lutes went on a rampage with a police-issue MP5, killing 5 neighbors (in two separate homes), before killing himself with a handgun.
Fatalities (excluding perpetrator): 5 (Not a mass shooting as the victims were specifically targeted in their homes)

Machineguns Used In Crimes, Post-NFA | The Zelman Partisans

If you read the article I am referring to (please do), the author makes a differentiation between firearms possessed by LEOs or military such that they only have them legally because they are LE/Military vs. firearms owned by "civilians" (not LE/military). Also, there were four instances he refers to - not two.

That is an important differentiation when talking about restricting or further restricting NFA firearms (specifically select/full auto fire weapons) because of their use in crime. Further restrictions would most likely not place more restrictions on LE access to these firearms and most assuredly would not restrict military access.

 

[Member 18201]

Again, the details.

Roger Waller used his personal NFA firearm in the crime.

Edward Lutes used a department issued NFA firearm in the crime.

If you truly believe that logic and data plays any part in the crafting of laws, I can be of no assistance.

Winston Churchill said it best.

 

[The Heretic]

If you truly believe that logic and data plays any part in the crafting of laws, I can be of no assistance.

Winston Churchill said it best.

We can try.

Personally I suck at emotional appeal, so logic and data are all I can reliably use.

 

[aknate]

Stechkin smg pistol used by a importers wife to kill him.
Police officer that was robbing banks with his wife used a Mac-10.
Only 2 that I know of.

 

[aknate]

Stechkin smg pistol used by a importers wife to kill him.
Police officer that was robbing banks with his wife used a Mac-10.
Only 2 that I knew of.

 

[ACO]

Wouldn't this be an argument FOR the NFA?

 

[The Heretic]

Wouldn't this be an argument FOR the NFA?

Did you read the article?

 

[aknate]

Wouldn't this be an argument FOR the NFA?

Actually NO...………………………………..

 

[Stomper]

We can try.

Personally I suck at emotional appeal, so logic and data are all I can reliably use.

I suspect that's because you're a 1st gen synth with rough-draft software that was rushed into the field too soon.

 

[The Heretic]

I suspect that's because you're a 1st gen synth with rough-draft software that was rushed into the field too soon.

 

[Stomper]

Resistance is futile.

 

[Mark W.]

Actually there was a case brought up in a Senate hearing a outlet decades ago about a Clackamas co. Sherrif running out of his house with a registered M16 and pointing it at a teenager he thought was breaking into his pickup. The kid wasn't doing anything and pointing a firearm at someone is a nono.

 

[nk02442]

Actually there was a case brought up in a Senate hearing a outlet decades ago about a Clackamas co. Sherrif running out of his house with a registered M16 and pointing it at a teenager he thought was breaking into his pickup. The kid wasn't doing anything and pointing a firearm at someone is a nono.

 

[Member 18201]

Resistance is futile.

 

[Stomper]

View attachment 743166

Show the wheel or it doesn't count...

 

[Kid@Heart]

Have legally owned automatic weapons been used in a crime?
Yes, I believe so.
St. Valentines Day Massacre. Al Capone's guys used a Thompson. I saw the movie.

 

[Flymph]

Have legally owned automatic weapons been used in a crime?
Yes, I believe so.
St. Valentines Day Massacre. Al Capone's guys used a Thompson. I saw the movie.

Didn't he hire cops to do that?

 

[bbbass]

The firearms used were all legally owned in 1929 (Ooops, didn't see Kid's post)