Gun trusts for suppressor

[Jcon268]

Would like to get some opinions about using a gun trust and specific gun trust around the Portland area if I chose to go that route to purchase a suppressor. I've heard mixed stories but it seems that it might be worth going this route for several reasons. Does anybody have personal experience with a particular trust or the process in general?

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[CountryGent]

We went with Northwest Law Group for our family trust. We've been pleased with the trust they drafted for us and the support related to said.

The benefits to us are:

• NFA filings have been easy.
  
• My wife and myself are both shooters, so we wanted the ability for both of us to be able to have access to the NFA equipment. This was our primary concern.
• It spells out inheritance and other aspects.
• Title I items and accessories can be held in our particular trust.

Benefits we used to have, pre-41F, that were factors:

• No CLEO sign off. Our Sheriff was/is quite clear he would sign off on those forms, but it was a step we could be skipped. Living as remote as we are, that would take out much of the day for such a trip.
• No fingerprint cards or photos until 41F.
• We could, and did several times, use eForms to file Form 1. It made making new NFA items a little easier because it was all done electronically. As of this writing, they have not brought back Form 1s to eForms. They claim they are looking into doing that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Negatives:

• Cost to set it up initially.
• From my experience, and those of others being reported here and elsewhere, post-41F Form 4s on a trust are taking an eternity until approval. I have one F4, for example, that will hit the 11 month mark in "pending" in a couple weeks, and is well past a year since the date of purchase.

Hope that helps.

 

[mrblond]

I think whatever the ATF did last July kinda made the trust not really worth it. The main thing was the fact you didint need the LEO signing off, I think now you only need to inform the LEO that your getting the NFA item.

 

[CountryGent]

I think whatever the ATF did last July kinda made the trust not really worth it.

It took away many benefits (no CLEO sign off, no prints and photographs, eForms access, etc.). However, there is still the benefit of having more than one person listed as a trustee who can access and use the items.

If one is single and doesn't care about the other benefits of a trust, then, agreed, it is a waste post-41F.

The main thing was the fact you didint need the LEO signing off, I think now you only need to inform the LEO that your getting the NFA item.

Correct. The CLEO must be notified. Details below:

Is the chief law enforcement officer required to sign the law enforcement certification on ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4?

No. Effective July 13, 2016, the final rule "Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a Firearm" amends the regulations to eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by a CLEO and instead adds a CLEO notification requirement. Prior to submission of the application to the Director, all applicants/transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4, or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor. If the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, or corporation, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at its principal office or principal place of business; if the applicant/transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a trust, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained.

 

[KKG]

Don't know if there is s Silencer Co in your area but if there is I'd Highly recommend you contact them. They walked me right through the paperwork and Must have done it right because all the papers passed through the BATFE without a hitch. I did this a couple of years ago right after the law changed here in WA. Cans are fun and I spent more money for threading than maybe I should have but now the can moves from one Gun to another nicely.

 

[Jcon268]

Ok so it seems the main purpose is to pass NFA items to other relatives if necessary say in the event I died. I really am just looking for the least hassle. I currently don't have a passport and it seems I'd need to have one for the photo which is just another step in an already long process. I don't mind paying more for the trust if it cuts down the hassle. Let's face it, silencers aren't cheap and neither is the tax stamp so what's a little more?

 

[Jcon268]

Also the fingerprinting....either way do I have to contact the local sheriff for that to be done?

 

[CountryGent]

Ok so it seems the main purpose is to pass NFA items to other relatives if necessary say in the event I died.

A trust can be used to outline who gets what when you pass, but it isn't a requirement. NFA items can be passed on tax free to an heir via a Form 5.

I really am just looking for the least hassle. I currently don't have a passport and it seems I'd need to have one for the photo which is just another step in an already long process.

You don't need a passport. You do need passport-style photos. These can be obtained from many places, including Walgreens, at little cost.

I don't mind paying more for the trust if it cuts down the hassle. Let's face it, silencers aren't cheap and neither is the tax stamp so what's a little more?

True that, stamp collecting can get pricy.

Also the fingerprinting....either way do I have to contact the local sheriff for that to be done?

A Sheriff's department, a police station, and others, can be used as long as it is done by "anyone who is properly equipped to take them." They must be on FD-258 cards. They can be requested for free here.

Hope that helps.

 

[jbett98]

Where do you plan on buying a suppressor local or online?

 

[Jcon268]

A trust can be used to outline who gets what when you pass, but it isn't a requirement. NFA items can be passed on tax free to an heir via a Form 5.



You don't need a passport. You do need passport-style photos. These can be obtained from many places, including Walgreens, at little cost.



True that, stamp collecting can get pricy.



A Sheriff's department, a police station, and others, can be used as long as it is done by "anyone who is properly equipped to take them." They must be on FD-258 cards. They can be requested for free here.

Hope that helps.

Very helpful. Thanks!

 

[Jcon268]

Where do you plan on buying a suppressor local or online?

Was considering online through Silencerco. Reason being is I have a rifle with a saker brake that works with their system. Any thoughts?

 

[CountryGent]

Very helpful. Thanks!

I am very glad to help. Goodness knows the NFA world isn't easily navigated. If you have questions, please, ask away. You are among friends here.

 

[jbett98]

I bought all of mine through Curt's Discount Firearms on Mcloughlin Blvd.
Curt's daughter Hillary was an enormous help with the first couple of form 4's, after that I pretty much had it figured out, but then I needed some help with a tricky SBR form 1 question and she made sure I didn't mess it up.
I also liked the fact that Curt's gave me a threaded barrel adapter of my choice when you buy through him, and no background check fee when you pick up your suppressor, a $90.00 savings.
You want to be sure everything is perfect on the forms, as the wait time is very long and the last thing you want is it to be sent back for a simple correction.
If you later on decide to buy another suppressor, you have to amend the schedule A list and a customer picking up a suppressor at Curt's showed me the proper way to word it.
I can't thank the folks at Curt's enough for all the help they gave me as I waded through the ATF labyrinth of rules and regulations, especially since I was using a generic family gun trust that a member here posted for all to use.
All of my stamps were processed before the 41F regulations.

 

[Sandaholic]

Go to the silencershop website. Find a suppresor you like. Look up silencershop dealers in your area that have a kiosk in store. Buy the silencer go do your prints in store. Download a silencershop app to upload a picture. Pay for your stamp and trust all online, super easy. All future purchases through silencershop can be done online and you will only need to visit the store to pick up your can.

I went with the unlimited as I figure I'll buy several cans and build an SBR or 2.

 

[pwcummings]

I did a Silencerco gun trust for the 2 cans I purchased last spring. No hiccups whatsoever. I also went through Curt's and Hillary made the paperwork process really easy. Like I said no hiccups at all in the approval process.

Sure gun trusts aren't quite as handy as they once were with the no-cleo sign offs but they still do what they were actually designed to do, protect your investment to be with your family for generations. You can also amend them to include other people, like your wife, brother, etc. makes details like going shooting then sending the cans home with the wife while I head to xyz a lot easier. My approval took 9 months. Had I done individual it might have shaved a month or two off. I'm glad I did the trust.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Can you purchase an NFA item outside of a trust and later add it in ?

 

[CountryGent]

Can you purchase an NFA item outside of a trust and later add it in ?

Legally, yes, but you will double your tax stamp cost. If it is transfered to you as an individual and then from you to the Trust, it is another Form 4, $200, etc., because the legal entity that it is registered has changed.

 

[ThePhonMan]

According to the attorney who set up my trust, if you "transfer" a NFA item from your personal ownership to the trust, you are changing ownership and it would require a new tax stamp. Since I didn't own any NFA stuff prior to setting up the trust it didn't matter to me.

I'm sure others, who have gone through the process of moving from private owned to trust, can chime in.

 

[Mygrainman]

I downloaded the trust paperwork from Silencer Shop ($125)and just had it noterised at my Credit Union for free. No need to go to a Lawer. Only hassle was anybody you put on the trust initially has to be photoed and fingerprinted... So it was $10 each at local PD for prints, <$5 at RiteAid for Photos, $125 for trust forms, and $200 each stamp... so the cost 2 get both mine...besides the cans themselves... was just under $600
Silencerco Hybrid 46=$800 and Silencerco SpectreII~$400
so after taxes fees, and everything for 2 cans it was around $2000
but now I can hush everything from 17hmr to 45/70
Well in another 4-8 months I will

 

[jbett98]

A couple of years ago the ATF was generous enough to eliminate the $5.00 tax stamp inheritance transfer fee.