Gun Stores ruining the future of our hobby

[13charger68]

I am about fed up with gun shops in WA state. My eight year old son has got a handle on how to handle a firearm and is very proficient with a rifle. After hours of training and dry firing with my 1911 and a Ruger Blackhawk and gaining marksmanship proficiency we decided to start preparing for action shooting. The next step is to get a gun that fits him. Well to my surprise when I took him to a local gun retailer to find a gun that fits his little man paws the guy at the counter said he could under no circumstances touch the gun. Really? I thought it was limited to that retailer, but found it again and again at other retailers. I saw the marksman range was free range time to kids under 14 with a parent and thought what a great opportunity. He could get the chance to not only handle the gun, but once we found one that fit he could shoot it. The clerk there told me he was too young. Found a S&W 625 at another shop that I was ready to drop down the cash to buy if he could handle it first. Same story no one under 18 could handle their guns. Background on this eight year old kid that is too young. He can shoot better than most of the knucklehead adults I see at the range, knows and practices gun safety and can recite the 10 commandments of gun safety, understands the cycles of function, knows and practices the fundamentals of marksmanship and on a good day can put me to shame with his red rider. He is the quintessential future of our hobby and who we want representing us as a responsible gun owner. So go ahead and sell the Tranny that is obviously on some sort of medication or other drugs that automatic Mossberg,(yes that really happened. It was the clerk that gave the Man in a women's blouse and pair of pumps that said my boy couldn't touch the gun I was prepared to drop down $900 cash for) I will take my business elsewhere. Thank god I will be in Texas soon.

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[Mohawk13]

Thing called insurance that keeps tots from handling guns in shops. Texas is the same way. Just because Your son can shoot at 8, does not require private business' to let him handle their hardware. Legal issues excluded, They were just protecting their own interest.....

 

[13charger68]

It's not all shops, some choose to use their own judgement rather than their insurance policy as their guiding principles for running their business. Not much that insurance companies and lawyers haven't ruined in this country.

 

[JackThompson]

That stinks

Some shops have plastic replicas (Wholesale sports has a few)

 

[The B]

Stupidest bubblegumin thing I've heard all day. Sorry OP. Good luck.

 

[codezilla]

Maybe write a post on this forum asking if one of these vendors might invite you & your son down to their shop?

 

[lamrith]

Age limit is 10yrs old for marksman range, I am waiting for my son to be old enough. Inconvenient yes, but that's the rules and as you said most ranges are that way. Some kids are more advanced than others, but businesses have to make rules and stick by them or face discrimination hassles when your 8yr old is allowed something and then no discipline soccer moms 10yr old is denied because he is clueless and does not follow instruction and mom pitches a fit and call her lawyer.

If you want him to shoot, then take him out in one of the many shooting pits.

 

[Torqk911]

I think maybe instead of hating on these stores you should respect them for sticking to their principles.

Honestly, being on the working side of a gun store there is nothing worst I hate than any young kid picking up a gun in a store setting. As a store you have no knowledge of that kids background nor adults background with a gun. Also, in my experiences most gun drops in stores occur from kids dashing between guns as they are kids and they are excited.

That being said I know that gun stores will work with parents to allow kids to hold guns under the right circumstances.

All guns are for sell and if you really want to have your child hold them all you need to work that out with the store.

But by federal law they cant sell you a gun if they knowingly know that your buying it for someone else to use or a minor doesn't matter your location with the states.

So honestly I think that before you rag on the stores maybe you should become more aware of the hobby your involved with. Stating anything about buying it directly for your child/person they can't sell you any gun under federal laws! Most stores at that point will deny you touching guns on that trip as well.

 

[13charger68]

Thanks for all the comments. Guns are a bit more than a hobby for me and I am aware of the laws and regulations governing firearm commerce. I have no problem answering questions or taking a quiz before handling a gun in a store and realize that a private business has the right to refuse business to anyone. I just think that blindly following policies that aren't really based on any real data is baloney. I like that the marksman requires a course be completed before shooting on their range would be better if they were up front and rather than saying under 14 free they stated ages 10-14. The state doesn't have a minimum hunting age and that the test is equal for all. At the end of the day Cabela's and Bullseye Range will continue to get my business. Don't lump all kids in the same category, that's just prejudice.

 

[Nwcid]

So honestly I think that before you rag on the stores maybe you should become more aware of the hobby your involved with. Stating anything about buying it directly for your child/person they can't sell you any gun under federal laws! Most stores at that point will deny you touching guns on that trip as well.

I guess I have missed that Federal Law, can you please provide a link to it? Since you seem to be working in a gun shop that just proves the ignorance of yet another shop...........

 

[lamrith]

The law is part of the gun control act of 1968, 18U.M.C I believe. On phone so dont have full text here, but it came up in thread on pheonix teen shooting intruder. To paraphrase; minors under legal gun age may only have handgun in course of farm work, defense of home, or while practicing under supervision. The op saying for his son while looking probably spooked most stores as it could put them in jeapardy for knowing the weapon was for a minor... Marksman in particular i know is hardcore on rules and even the way an adults handle a firearm in store..

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Nwcid]

You can not provide a link because there is not one because it is not illegal. Here I will provide 2 for you.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]

Here is the actual text of that law, the section is "x" toward the end of the page,
18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts



I dont spend my money in shops that get "spooked" by following the law. There is NO law against a parent by guns for their kids. There are too many GOOD shops that know the law AND understand it that are HAPPY to help out in these cases.

Does your shop sell Cricket or Chipmunk rifles? Who do you think the #1 market for those are.......... Kids. Since kids are not legally allowed to buy them parents have to come in and say I am looking at a XXX for my child................

 

[The B]

You can not provide a link because there is not one because it is not illegal. Here I will provide 2 for you.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]

Here is the actual text of that law, the section is "x" toward the end of the page,
18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts



I dont spend my money in shops that get "spooked" by following the law. There is NO law against a parent by guns for their kids. There are too many GOOD shops that know the law AND understand it that are HAPPY to help out in these cases.

Does your shop sell Cricket or Chipmunk rifles? Who do you think the #1 market for those are.......... Kids. Since kids are not legally allowed to buy them parents have to come in and say I am looking at a XXX for my child................

You beat me to it. I, for some reason, find it incredibly irritating that there's people who think you can't buy a gun for your own kid. YES YOU CAN BUY A GUN FOR YOUR KID.

 

[jbett98]

Take him to a store that sells airsoft pistols. The weight might not be the same, but the fit and finish on most of them is very realistic.

 

[humdrum]

When I was a kid, Dad and I used to frequent shops and walk out with a new gun for me every now and then and no one said boo. Everything was on the up-and-up. My wife was turned away from a rifle purchase at Big-5 once on account of the clerks ignorance of the law much the way the OP was, and I tell you I was hot when I heard that news. On a side note, if it were illegal (which it's not)for a minor to handle or be in supervised possesion of a firearm then why does the public range on Ft. Lewis (MWR's Range 15)allow kids seven years or older to shoot with mom and dad?-A range on federal land wouldn't skirt the law; would they? It just seems over-protective (if insurance was to blame- which is highly unlikely if the OP was ready to buy)of a shop to turn down a purchase because it is for a kid who obviously is no felon. Please redefine "straw purchase" for the counter-person so we can all go back to the gunshops with our kids.

 

[Nwcid]

Please redefine "straw purchase" for the counter-person so we can all go back to the gunshops with our kids.

"straw purchase" is defined just fine and VERY clear by the ATF. It is is the people that choose not to understand it that is the problem.

ATF use to have a really good fact sheet on it but I can not find it right now. I will keep looking.

 

[revmedia]

I do too, and I find it even more irritating that someone who professes to sell guns for a living actually has no idea that you can, in fact, purchase a gun for your kid.

You beat me to it. I, for some reason, find it incredibly irritating that there's people who think you can't buy a gun for your own kid. YES YOU CAN BUY A GUN FOR YOUR KID.

 

[coop44]

The rules/laws don't apply to you because you are a special breeder? A business decides to do establish rules you don't like, go away, don't shop there. They probably won't miss you. At his age your child probably does not understand what damage a gun can do or the consequences. Rote memorization does not equate to a real understanding. Not everybody has to kiss your butt because you have a kid.

Talk to an Orthopedist, the damage to your kids joints from shooting larger calibers than a .22 will probably result in joint damage effectively giving him arthritus by the time he is in his 20's.

 

[13charger68]

Don't expect anyone to kiss my butt, just don't appreciate the discrimination. Agree rote memorization is not the way to teach, I have spent nearly half my adult life in countries seeing the outcome of a society that teaches their young to memorize a book. I also see the fat wasted youth in our society that spend most of their lives learning from an electronic box rather than a parent or a teacher and I choose to raise my kids according to the way I was brought up. My son doesn't do anything I didn't as a kid and I have a good friend that is an orthopedic surgeon that raises his son in a similar manner.

 

[deen_ad]

Don't expect anyone to kiss my butt, just don't appreciate the discrimination.

It's not discrimination either! It's simply their way of doing business. Their business, their rules. Find another shop to buy from. I bought a nice single action .22 pistol for my 12 yr old grandson from a friend, no need to pay new prices either.