Other State Gun Rights -vs- Private Property Rights

[Koda]

That's where a property owners rules and the law diverge. You can be trespassed, and as long as you walk away, that's the end of it.

Oh they are chipping away at this. Not anymore in some public buildings. Public. Buildings.

Next it will be private businesses. You lose more than just your job...

 

[Ura-Ki]

Private property is something like your home, NOT a Public accessible area/building! While a home owner can set policy, there is no real force of law here. A business owner that services the public must have force of law behind them ( Not very likely) to post No Guns Signage, the most you could suffer is being trespassed for failing to leave when asked! The rest of this is all questionable and I'm curious to see how it plays!

 

[Member 53328]

Yes, if you get caught and its illegal...

Only if you refuse to leave. Otherwise they legally can't do anything. And if it's truly concealed you won't get "caught."

 

[No_Regerts]

Private property is something like your home, NOT a Public accessible area/building! While a home owner can set policy, there is no real force of law here. A business owner that services the public must have force of law behind them ( Not very likely) to post No Guns Signage, the most you could suffer is being trespassed for failing to leave when asked! The rest of this is all questionable and I'm curious to see how it plays!

Either situation is a trespass, not an unlawful possession in a prohibited area. Washington has passed some laws recently where carrying in prohibited areas such as wherever a protest happens to be. It would be interesting to see that stand up in court when you consider how many protests over the last few years had permits and stayed in their designated areas.

 

[trevi]

Agreed.

Metal detectors though....

I know veterans from Desert Storm and other wars with metal shrapnel and plates in the bodies, they get get a rise out of setting off metal detectors.

 

[No_Regerts]

I know veterans from Desert Storm and other wars with metal shrapnel and plates in the bodies, they get get a rise out of setting off metal detectors.

Then you get the ole pat down.....

 

[American123]

I can understand private property owners can ask me to not bring guns on their private property. Where I have a real problem with that is where public spaces can be rented by private enterprises and that allows them to restrict my rights as well. For example, the baseball stadium involved public tax dollars to fund it. I also have an issue with the "no gun thing" in federal buildings - can't seem to find anything in the constitution that says they are allowed to do that.

 

[WillametteWill]

They way I see it, if you run a business that's open to the general public (like a store front) and you ban "weapons" then YOU are responsible for everyone's safety who is inside your establishment UNLESS you prominently post a disclaimer of "enter at your own risk"…. otherwise they can STFU and take my money.

I have always thought this is a GREAT point. You are stopping me from protecting myself in a lawful way I see fit. Unfortunately the counter to that is then I can shop elsewhere. I think where this could have some traction as where @American123 notes above, some public venues that are funded or publicly owned.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The Constitution grants Congress the power to intact laws, so sometimes they do

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[Knebel]

I have looked into this a while back. I know in theory a landlord could also deny you firearms in your home (rental) since its THEIR private property. However, it exposes the landlord to liability should you sue if something happens in your home and it left you defensless. So most decide not to even touch this because it is not worth the hassle.Thats what I found from legal resourcessources.

In my opinion, an establishment on private property that 'bans' guns should be expected to keep you reasonably safe. Im thinking... el paso walmart, lets say you had to lock your gun in the car and then you or someone you love got shot in the store... in theory you can sue the store for damages because they took the chance from you to defend yourself.

 

[American123]

The Constitution grants Congress the power to intact laws, so sometimes they do

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

www.law.cornell.edu

Sounds like an infringement. "Shall not be" is rather definitive. Not "shall not be except in specific instances."

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Sounds like an infringement. "Shall not be" is rather definitive. Not "shall not be except in specific instances."

Meh, not an argument that I want to undertake or even think would in anyway be productive

 

[American123]

Meh, not an argument that I want to undertake or even think would in anyway be productive

That's ok, wouldn't change what is plainly written in the constitution either way.

 

[sobo]

Only if taxes are collected on said private/personal property items
Which is... pretty much everyhing subject to sales taxes, or "excise" taxes. I don't pay property taxes outright, but its most likely figured into the rent amount anyways. Oregon doesn't yet have a sales tax soo a lot of things can be bought "tax free" if they don't fall under liquor, property, "luxury" (vehicles) or something like that.

Rest assured that the landlord is collecting property taxes in your rent. She/he/it/they would be idiots not to.

 

[sobo]

Private property is not private. It is governd by the government and falls under the same laws. Not to mention you have to pay a fee to the government for 'your' private property

This is absolutely correct, and an absolute abomination. Even with my home completely paid off, I still don't really own it in the purest sense. If I fail to make a property tax payment on time, the county can put a lien on my home. If I continue to not pay my property taxes, then the county can call in that lien, my home is taken from me, and I get evicted from a home that I paid for. How is that lawful? This is why property taxes are a total scam and nothing but theft. All taxation is theft!

 

[Koda]

Ive had several anti gun friends remind me that all our rights can be regulated, as if that means no laws have ever been ruled unconstitutional.
There is only one constitutional law that very clearly specifies it "shall not be infringed" and yet it has the most infringements of them all.
If a any place is open to the public at large, there should be a way to lawfully carry a gun for personal protection. When there are no lawful options, its an infringement.

 

[American123]

Ive had several anti gun friends remind me that all our rights can be regulated, as if that means no laws have ever been ruled unconstitutional.
There is only one constitutional law that very clearly specifies it "shall not be infringed" and yet it has the most infringements of them all.
If a any place is open to the public at large, there should be a way to lawfully carry a gun for personal protection. When there are no lawful options, its an infringement.

"Lawful options" are still infringement. Literally any law regarding guns is an infringement.

 

[Koda]

"Lawful options" are still infringement. Literally any law regarding guns is an infringement.

Should violent felons be able to possess guns?

 

[American123]

Should violent felons be able to possess guns?

Violent felons shouldn't be alive for that question even to matter, the constitution didn't add an asterisk to the right.

 

[Camelfilter]

Should violent felons be able to possess guns?

Yes sir!

Did the crime, got caught & did the time...

There shouldn't be a subset of citizens. Either folks are free, or they are in prison.