Gun owners will be the demise of 2nd Amendment

[3MTA3]

If it wasn't for carry rallies, we probably wouldn't get the support we need to keep many of the gun legislation at bay.


Gun right organizations might be able to remove or repeal gun laws, but gun rallies keep them from ever making the laws get to the State Senate for signing.

Whose support are you trying to get?

Those who support the Second Amendment are already on out side. Like you and me when they see someone open carrying it's no different than seeing someone carrying a shovel or a wrench.

Those who are against our Second Amendment Rights will never be persuaded by any argument we can give.

The target audience are those who are undecided. They need to be educated and also need assurance that gun owners aren't reckless and their firearms aren't a danger to them. The majority of the undecided grew up in suburbs middle ground between the urban cities (generally anti gun) and rural areas (generally pro gun). The suburbs have been increasingly gentrified, fewer households go hunting or recreationally shoot, and whose children are being brainwashed by public education.

How do open carry events help to educate the undecided and persuade them to support the Second Amendment?

If the undecided feel threatened by open carry events, how do expect they will vote on the various initiatives and for/against pro Second Amendment candidates?

We are all on the same side here and have the same goals and objectives. The question is how to best achieve those goals.

Bottom line - how to you educate and persuade those who feel you are threatening them?

 

[Riot]

Whose support are you trying to get?

Fudds- people who think that the gun control debate is about "military assault rifles" and not their hunting guns. People that own guns or want the right to own a gun but don't want to involve themselves in politics and be labeled a nutbag for taking a side.

Those who support the Second Amendment are already on out side. Like you and me when they see someone open carrying it's no different than seeing someone carrying a shovel or a wrench.

Sitting behind your chair complaining about gun laws in a gun forum does nothing to protect your gun rights, agreed?

Buying a gun does nothing to protect or defend your gun rights, either.

Those who are against our Second Amendment Rights will never be persuaded by any argument we can give.

If you believe that, then why are you here? Why do you even voice your opinion about this issue with us since I obviously cannot be swayed to your side of the argument and will never agree with anything you say since my mind is already made up?

The target audience are those who are undecided.

The target audiance is every American. White, black, hispanic, gun owner or not...it's not just about guns- it's about rights and your ability to defend those rights.

How do open carry events help to educate the undecided and persuade them to support the Second Amendment?

They let people know that gun owners aren't just white, redneck racists that want to overthrow the government. The let people know that gun owners are mothers, sisters, brothers, farmers, police officers, firemen, businessmen, grandmas and grandpas...They let people know that there are lots of people out there that don't agree with gun control, regardless of how many BS stats the left throws around.

If the undecided feel threatened by open carry events, how do expect they will vote on the various initiatives and for/against pro Second Amendment candidates?

If someone gets "threatened" by an open carry rally then they propbably have never been to any other rally. How many people get hurt during Occupy Wall Street rallies? How about Pro-Palestine rallies? Here's a thought...when you compare left-wing rallies (Anti "Right-to-Work" Union Rallies, etc.) to Right-Wing rallies (anti-abortion, etc.) how many people get hurt? Those are the "rallies" that make me go from undecided to decided...if seeing a gun makes someone scared then they've already made up their mind. Hell, they're probably one CBS special away from donating to the I-594 initiative...they don't even need to be within a mile of a gun!

We are all on the same side here and have the same goals and objectives. The question is how to best achieve those goals.

Bottom line - how to you educate and persuade those who feel you are threatening them?

No, no we're not. I actually am against open carry- except during rallies. I think taking your gun for a walk is a stupid idea and it attracts the wrong kind of attention. However, I also think that a right not exercised is a right forfeited. If you are not willing to fight for your rights then you've already lost the battle. People need to know that gun owners are their neighbors, their coworkers and their friends...we need to stop wearing camo and waving Gatson Flags at these things and just show up in a suit, tie and an AR-15 with the American Flag...that, in my opinion, is more of a statement than being too afraid of scaring someone by not showing up to the rally or showing up in a 3rd Reich uniform. There are extremes to this that can scare off the support we need and they need to have their heels cooled- and then there also needs to be a lit match under the guys that have to get off their @SS and DO SOMETHING!

Owning a gun does not make you a defender of the 2nd Amendment...going to rallies, writting your legislators and fighting for your 2nd Amendment rights does.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I want to have a T shirt made up that shows a gun & caption saying; Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun has!!! while open carrying.

 

[3MTA3]

Riot - thank for your response and for clarifying your thoughts. I do like and agree with much (but not all) of what you have to say, especially towards the end where you stress the need for showing others that we are their neighbors and friends. You touched right on what I was talking about by people feeling threatened and provoked.

I am for open carry when there is a need. An example is old man who wandered into the store I worked at many years ago who was carrying his shotgun home from his gunsmith. I'm also supportive of open carry if there is a need for protection whether urban or wilderness. I do not support the misguided efforts of people who open carry to provoke. Are they within their rights? Yes. Are they helping us? No. Does everybody on this forum agree with me on this? No, and I don't expect them to.

Keep in mind that the other protests you mention do not get the same scrutiny as we do. Underage rapes during Occupy Wall Street? No press, no follow up by the authorities. Trash a city park and crap in the street? No problemo. Second Amendment supporters are held to a much tighter standard which for the most part meet.

You left one thing out in your last paragraph - donate money to organizations and candidates that support the Second Amendment. Be willing to send some of that money out of state as well, because what happens next door will soon be in your house if you don't stop it there.

 

[Caveman Jim]

The swing voters on this issue need to be informed to the point that we (law full gun owners) are not the monsters these anti-gun zealots portray us to be, they would be the criminals and mentally ill that go unchecked anymore & they do not mention them near enough.
We (law full gun owners) are the ones they are gunning for because we are the many, armed to the teeth, who could at any time, go postal....
As far as open carry goes in an urban setting, there is a paranoia that runs rampant when adults with children see a firearm in public. They instantly think "OMG another mall Ninga" is going to be shooting up the place and go into shell shock. This is how the media has portrayed the fear of guns outside the home to Mr. & Mrs. Joe Q. Public to think and gives the antis the upper hand in this fight.

I am all for getting the word out, that those who are willing to give up their rights will cause others to have their rights taken away, and that just is not going to happen without a fight!!!

LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!!!

 

[xtratoy]

"This is akin to a literacy test that was used to keep poor black people from voting". Poor people can't read?? I didn't know that. Or is it just poor black people who can't read?

 

[3MTA3]

"This is akin to a literacy test that was used to keep poor black people from voting". Poor people can't read?? I didn't know that. Or is it just poor black people who can't read?

References abound on how "literacy tests" were used to prevent blacks from voting. The text below is from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test):

"Literacy tests, along with poll taxes and extra-legal intimidation,[6] were used to deny suffrage to African-Americans. The first formal voter literacy tests were introduced in 1890.

At first, whites were exempted from the literacy test if they could meet alternate requirements (the grandfather clause) that, in practice, excluded blacks. The Grandfather Clause allowed an illiterate person to vote if he could show descent from someone who was eligible to vote before 1867 (when only whites could vote). Grandfather clauses were ruled unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Guinn v. United States (1915). Nevertheless, literacy tests continued to be used to disenfranchise blacks. The tests were usually administered orally by white local officials, who had complete discretion over who passed and who failed.[7] Examples of questions asked of Blacks in Alabama included: naming all sixty-seven county judges in the state, naming the date on which Oklahoma was admitted to the Union, and declaring how many bubbles are in a bar of soap.[8]"​

 

[The Heretic]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=784661338268267

 

[Darknight]

I know most will hate this however, it is clear that more damage to the rights of gun ownership is being done by gun owners trying to prove a point than anything that the antis can send our way. Gun ownership is not inalienable, the second amendment can be repealed, or tactics used to make it moot. Too many are acting like entitled brats rather than responsible adults. Yes 99% of gun owners are responsible, however the vocal minority is going to get my rights taken away and it is starting to really tick me off!
Rather than approach every statement or conversation with a "don't tread on me" attitude, start offering reasonable solutions to what is scaring those that don't understand guns. Start acting like upstanding citizens and don't harass those that disagree, attempt to have a civil conversation to educate, if they are not interested move on. If a store stops letting us carry, nicely let them know you will not be spending money there, this open carry protest garbage is going to screw up any ownership for us all. When Bill Maher is thanking idiot gun owners, we our are own problem.
Gun owners need to start acting civil, its no wonder that the volume of the message to limit gun rights is growing.
If this group want to sponsor educational events, range days for kids, other events, I will be right there to help, but the whining and ranting needs to stop. It is time to convert people, gently, to our cause.

Rant over, and yes I expect to be hated and flamed.

Personally, I conceal CC about 90% of the time. However, I do on occasion open carry in urban settings. When I am on my way to go shooting I open carry and so does everyone with me and that includes stops for ice and such. We always finish and then go to lunch all open carrying; and yes in a fast food restaurant as well. I always support an individuals right to open carry even if in the setting they may choose to do it I may not. I have never had any negative interactions that stemmed from me choosing to open carry.

It is my opinion that most of the negative attention comes from individuals that open carry rifles in an urban setting. The average person usually doesn't even notice someone open carrying a handgun, it's the slung rifles that make them do the double take and start the panic and police calls. I save the open carry of my rifles for rural or range settings. Practically speaking if we want to educate the public on gun ownership and have more and more people come over to a pro gun position; we should use a little more finesse than a bull in a china shop. Ever heard the adage of how to boil a frog? The anti-gun hating grabbers have it down to a science. It's time we did the same thing.

Do we have any firearms instructors on here? Anyone with a connection with a local range that would be willing to let those instructors teach and have open and free gun safety and shooting classes for first time shooters. Having an open carry demonstration or rally is great, but those events don't usually help get people involved in shooting sports. They just end up on liberal media as being a bunch of nuts with guns.

It is my personal belief that we can make the greatest impact on the publics perception and support of gun ownership and carrying by getting one group to come to the pro gun side; WOMEN! Get your wives, girlfriends and daughters involved in shooting sports and we will have our gun rights forever. Every since I got my wife into shooting I get to spend more money on guns, get more trigger time and a safer feeling that my home is protected while I'm away. She also tells all her friends about her love of shooting. Ever wonder why anyone would buy a purple gun? My wife loves purple, and that, is all it took to get her into shooting and change her perception of guns. +1 more for our side.

 

[U201491]

I can tell you of an experience I had a long time ago. When I was in my early 20's I worked in the produce section of a large grocery store. For whatever reason we were the people that store security would turn to if they had issues with shoplifters or any other stolen item, so if there were security problems when security wasn't on shift the person in charge would call us.

One day I get a call from the PIC that a man had just walked in the store with a rifle (turned out later to be a shotgun). I went to an observation area upstairs where I could take a look at him. It was an older gentleman, and he did indeed have a shotgun. He didn't appear to be threatening and by this point was in my department, so I went back down to the shopping level and approached him and started the conversation with something along the lines of "That's a nice looking shotgun".

Turns out he had some work done on the shotgun and was just returning from the gunsmith. Being retired with plenty of time on his hands had decided to walk to get the exercise, and on his way home decided to stop by the store and pick up a few things. I could tell that he had no idea his armed presence could cause anybody to worry, and I never brought the subject up. I contacted the PIC to let her no there wasn't any danger and explained the situation. The gent completed his shopping and went on his way.

Where I see an issue with public carry is when its in your face and intended to intimidate our opposition to gun rights. That makes us all look just the way the left wants the moderate voters to see us.

Best most intelligent post to date. Exactly right. I have gone in to corner stores for snacks when I was younger and hunting in my rural area. We walked everywhere in those days and it was not an uncommon practice to have a rifle or shotgun with you. That was not intended to be in your face as it is more often today. It was just things we did. I even carried mine to school and kept it in my locker til after school. That was roughly near your neck of the woods 3MTA3, and you know which school I mean. and the stores were the ones where that plaid or 711 is and the Wagner store at the Central pt rd Junction. Today it would get you shot or convicted of a crime. Sad damned world we have made now.
Or should I say allowed the leftist Scum to create ................

.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Necro post much?

 

[boogerhook]

Hopplophobia is a spreading disease. 40 years back guns and rifles were seen for what they were. Tools. A tool for hunting, target practice, and having a good time. Similar to a fishing rod. Today, mass media combined with mass shootings has resulted in a fallacy of misleading vividness. People see a gun and imagine the horrible things "it" can do. Panic sets in. If someone openly carries a a holstered gun, chances that he will shoot you and/or others are incredibly slim, but in panic mode you cannot make these rational deductions.

Open carry supporters argue that exposure to guns worn peacefully, without a resulting mass shooting, will over time increase your tolerance and calm your fears. And I would agree it can. But that's a gun owner speaking ;-) A person who does not like guns will have a much harder time getting there.

So I am of the opinion that unnecessary provocations are to be avoided. Not activism but polite and responsible behavior, and enlightenment have the best chance of succeeding. Of course you must draw the line where abolitionists threaten our rights.

 

[boogerhook]

Necro post much?

that's funny - well it's not dead until its dead ;-)

 

[U201491]

that's funny - well it's not dead until its dead ;-)

Until its closed, it is never dead. Its called Revival.........................

 

[boogerhook]

Until its closed, it is never dead. Its called Revival.........................

le "post" est mort,
vive la "post"

 

[3MTA3]

Best most intelligent post to date. Exactly right. I have gone in to corner stores for snacks when I was younger and hunting in my rural area. We walked everywhere in those days and it was not an uncommon practice to have a rifle or shotgun with you. That was not intended to be in your face as it is more often today. It was just things we did. I even carried mine to school and kept it in my locker til after school. That was roughly near your neck of the woods 3MTA3, and you know which school I mean. and the stores were the ones where that plaid or 711 is and the Wagner store at the Central pt rd Junction. Today it would get you shot or convicted of a crime. Sad damned world we have made now.
Or should I say allowed the leftist Scum to create ................

.

I remember the Wagner store well - it's now a micro mall. One of my older brothers got the brilliant idea to take returned pop bottles they had stacked outside (days when you could trust people) and then return them to get the deposit so they could buy candy. Didn't take long for them to catch on... I think the last thing I bought there before it closed was some wax lips just before Halloween.

 

[U201491]

I remember the Wagner store well - it's now a micro mall. One of my older brothers got the brilliant idea to take returned pop bottles they had stacked outside (days when you could trust people) and then return them to get the deposit so they could buy candy. Didn't take long for them to catch on... I think the last thing I bought there before it closed was some wax lips just before Halloween.

Yep Good days back then. LOL.
Wagner's used to come bail our hay every year
Ohhh yeah the wax pops and 3 cent candy bars that were 4 times bigger than anything sold today

 

[U201491]

Thus isn't Beirut, and carrying a long arm to go shopping at wally world or to buy lunch somewhere in this day and age is as narssisstic as obums pen signing executive orders against the will of congress and the American people. It is detrimental to country and defeats the purpose of all we fight for.
To use the reason "normalize" is not going to happen in this political climate. If you want to "normalize" then work to get out enough voters to get rid of leftist azzhats that sit in our Capitol not run around carrying a longarm to the shopping mall and carry concealed or even open carry a sidearm. As with many here, if I see you walking into a mall or department store or McDonalds with a rifle, and I am there with my family, I will keep you in my sights at the ready also, as I have no idea what your intentions are. You are one step away from an unintended incident.
I carry 24-7, but don't make a spectacle of it.
I do not see those that walk around places like malls or restaraunts as anything but LE using overbearing mil tactics or potential nut jobs. Neither is good for us. And making an "in their face" tactic is anti gun as much as the leftist nut cases we fight every day.
Save it for the time we will need it and quit putting scars on the pro 2nd amendment cause.
You do as much harm as the prozanskis, burdicks and bloombergs and I sometimes wonder ir you don't work for them.

 

[Gator Monroe]

Gun owning riff raff and bad actors who happen to have Firearms (Legally or Illegally ) are not as big of a problem for us as the Far Left & Left . They (Democrats & Socialist Leaning Progressives ) think we all are the same ( Nutjob NRA types & Militia/Tea Party/Oathkeeper Fundy Right Wingers ... Reguardless if we happent to be Urban Jewish Middle of the roaders or Criminal Illegal Gangbangers...

 

[308]

Where does this 21 year old carrying s glock in McDonald's = well regulated militia? Gotta be kidding me

I guess I should have asked that kid/soldier from Fort Lewis who was open carrying in "Taco Bell" when the wife and I went in. Maybe Taco Bell is cool for you rather than McDonalds? Or maybe the fact that he was a trained soldier? Your 21-yr old example? How about you define who that "d00sher" is supposed to be...being only 21 and all. I was packing a .22 at 8-yrs old and never harmed anyone or shot anything I wasn't supposed to shoot.

But then again, that was a while back when we didn't have to deal with the metro mindset and their feewings.