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Gun owners will be the demise of 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by markpeters1970, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. markpeters1970

    markpeters1970 PNW Active Member

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    I know most will hate this however, it is clear that more damage to the rights of gun ownership is being done by gun owners trying to prove a point than anything that the antis can send our way. Gun ownership is not inalienable, the second amendment can be repealed, or tactics used to make it moot. Too many are acting like entitled brats rather than responsible adults. Yes 99% of gun owners are responsible, however the vocal minority is going to get my rights taken away and it is starting to really tick me off!
    Rather than approach every statement or conversation with a "don't tread on me" attitude, start offering reasonable solutions to what is scaring those that don't understand guns. Start acting like upstanding citizens and don't harass those that disagree, attempt to have a civil conversation to educate, if they are not interested move on. If a store stops letting us carry, nicely let them know you will not be spending money there, this open carry protest garbage is going to screw up any ownership for us all. When Bill Maher is thanking idiot gun owners, we our are own problem.
    Gun owners need to start acting civil, its no wonder that the volume of the message to limit gun rights is growing.
    If this group want to sponsor educational events, range days for kids, other events, I will be right there to help, but the whining and ranting needs to stop. It is time to convert people, gently, to our cause.

    Rant over, and yes I expect to be hated and flamed.
     
  2. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    I'd say more like only 85% of gun owners are responsible from what I see when I go out shooting in the woods. I'm not just talking trash but shot up signs and unsafe places people have been target practicing in. Also the many "accidental" discharges in the news and loaded guns left laying about around young kids.

    Add to that the in your face open carry in non traditional places like fast food joints etc. and we gun owners are getting too much bad attention. Save the open carry in urban areas for when it's needed like after a big disaster when the looters and bad guys are about!

    With all the bad media attn. lately the "Don't tread on me" attitude should be saved for the gun grabbing Politicians.
    The non gun owning public will have to be won over by other means. Start a conversation on normalcy bias or WOROL, SHTF. Direct them to a youtube vid of a brutal home invasion of an unarmed woman and child.
    Show them some Chicago crime stats where gun restrictions are tight. This will change their minds faster than a guy with an AR walking into a Mcdonalds ordering a Big Mac!
     
  3. GrpCapMandrake

    GrpCapMandrake Vancouver Active Member

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    I don't hate you sir. I think your points are valid and well stated.

    A case in point.

    My ex-Wife was vehemently anti-gun. I had actually given up shooting to have a relationship with this woman. After are marriage broke up I resumed my shooting activities, because I realized I missed it so much. The first time I brought a gun into my house my ex was so convinced that I was placing my children at risk. She was livid. I tried to explain, I offered to show her the guns and how they are stored, she would have none of it. When I spoke about taking the girls shooting, she thought I was a monster who was going to get her kids killed. However over the next couple of years (maybe a little less) her attitude started to change. One evening she agreed to come over and have dinner with me and the kids. After dinner she asked if I would be willing to show her my guns and explain them. I asked why (who wouldn't)? She said that over that couple of years she saw how responsible I was with my firearms. They were never left lying around, never left unattended or accessible to the kids in an unsupervised fashion. She noticed in short, how safe I was with my firearms. She said she was no longer afraid of my having firearms. Today she likes to join us for shooting, when her schedule allows.

    She is one out of millions, but one less anti-gun person seeking to take our rights away. What if all 100 million (or whatever the current number is) gun owners were the same and developed the same results.
     
  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    <- Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel!
    Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!
    Sounds about like my wife. I had guns long before we were dating or married. In fact I got my CPL just before we dated as my ex GF's psychiatrist called me to let me know she was out to kill me and that I should pick up her .38.
    Over the years (almost 29 now) the DW has, while not embraced guns, at least understands the difference is the person using them. Now even allowing me to take the grandson to the range as well as an NRA handgun class.

    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    Defender of Freedom Award
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    Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
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  5. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I get what you're trying to say, but I don't see how we can change it. What you're seeing is hardly unique to gun ownership. Some people lack common sense, some people just have a general bad attitude toward others, some people don't worry about how their actions affect other people. You can find that with people that abuse alcohol, people that drive recklessly, people that leave messes behind for other people to clean up, people that cut in line in front of you, and on and on and on. Gun owners certainly aren't the only ones that have to deal with the folks that make them look bad.

    Unfortunately, those people are highly unlikely to change. They will go on and do what they want, damn the consequences to themselves or others. Having calm, rational conversations about these issues doesn't appeal to them or their nature. Quite frankly, I deal with adults in my industry all the time that still act like they're in high school. It's remarkable to me that they can even function.

    But that said, I don't think it's fair to lump all open carry folks together with the ones that cause problems. Just last week there was a peaceful OC gathering in Vancouver that was reported positively in the media. Bonus points for the pro-gun side.

    And we can't forget the part that the media plays in all of this. They watch in anticipation for every moron with a gun that does something stupid so they can put it out there for the whole world to see. The problem is that it makes it appear that we're all that way, even though we know that's not true. I do think the troublemakers are a small percentage of the overall gun owners in this country. We would do well to remember that we don't have groups pushing for more car control just because some idiots on the road like to speed or zip in and out of traffic.

    It's true that we're going to help our cause by being reasonable and responsible while also pushing to maintain our rights. I just don't see that there will be any way to generate reason or common sense into those that don't have it. It's probably best that we simply distance ourselves from them when those things happen, condemning blatantly foolish actions or stunts so the rest of the folks out there know that we want to keep our rights, but not for the purpose of acting like fools.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2014
  6. Boats

    Boats Flicking A Switch To Open My Third Eye Well-Known Member

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    I am not going to concern myself for one minute about understanding people who would set any public policy merely upon the basis of their feeeeeewlings.
     
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  7. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    This is the process to amend the Constitution - http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/
    tell me you reasonably think that could happen to the 2nd without a major tectonic shift in both American demographics and politics.

    We are attempting to recover from the last 90 years of "reasonable compromises" and I will not be supporting any more.

    Anyone who says that %99 of any group are responsible has about %0 credibility because they obviously are either completely detached from the subject or lying. A quick look around a gun shop to see how many people have fingers on the trigger will tell you that's obviously untrue.
     
  8. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    Your rant is conflicting. If 99% are responsible, then why do you also say that gun owners need to act more civilly? I doubt this 1% can really have that great of an effect. But I agree I think there are a lot more than 1% of irresponsible gun owners. A lot more.

    The govt can only take the right away if we let them. It's voter power. It won't happen unless the majority says so.

    I am all for more stringent protocols for gun ownership. You have to pass a test to drive a car, but you can buy a pistol just by turning 21. That's bass ackwards. I don't think any goon should be able to buy a gun just because they came of age and want to be a tough guy. I also think there are limited situations where open carry should be allowed. It makes people uncomfortable and it takes no qualifications to do so. I see some young looking kid with a pistol openly on his hip I think why? Go get a concealed and don't make everybody nervous. do they really think they are going to bring comfort to the community? I don't know them, I don't trust them, and their gun on their hip doesn't make me feel any safer. I could careless if they banned open carry. It doesn't effect me. But the idea of the government coming to my home to confiscate my guns is ludacris. Won't happen in my lifetime and I am 30.

    They can make any regulations they want. I will meet and exceed their expectations. Back to my car analogy, at least when I am on the road I can safely assume the majority has been tested and passed to some degree. But that same person carrying the pistol has never had to pass any sort of competency test or anything. I see so many people that shouldn't have a gun but do. I literally cringe at the idea that they might be in a situation to use it because they will do more harm than good. More guns on the street is not the answer.

    I agree with somethings you said but the idea that this 1% will get my rights stripped is crazy. They may cause more regulations but I am for that. They are the proof it is needed and will be the first to fail at meeting the expectations, and I will applaude them bot being able to carry a weapon. Bring on the tests!
     
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  9. lorettarollins

    lorettarollins New Member

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    Imagine the Second Amendment didn't exist, and try arguing for a constitutional right to gun ownership. ...

    online pokies
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  10. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I see one BIG issue with your comment. That is that gun ownership is a right, a right guaranteed by the constitution and one that is not to be infringed. Conversely, owning and driving a car is a privilege, not a right. So I don't think you can apply the same thinking there. While I agree that training is very important, allowing the government to step more and more over the ling by putting yet more restrictions on people will only make it harder and harder for people to own them. Some folks need them for self defense - now. Put a bunch of obstacles in their way and you may prevent people from exercising that right. There are many people that don't own cars because they can't afford them - insurance, gas, licensing/registration, puts it out of reach for many Americans. Should we also do the same and limit the right of gun ownership?

    As far as I'm concerned, there are plenty of laws already in the way of gun ownership. I paid my money and my time to meet the requirements to carry a gun. I've also paid my money and my time to get additional training above and beyond the basics. I honestly can't see how you can be pro-2A and just asking for more government incursion. That to me is an oxymoron.
     
  11. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I too disagree with the OP characterization of the Second Amendment as "Gun ownership is not inalienable".

    The right to self defense is a natural right no matter what the state has to say.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
     
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  12. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    You take the right to bear arms means a 21 year old can own a weapon? Where in the second amendment does it mention age? So why didnt anyone cry out for their rights when they made that rule? because it is for the greater good. Just like I would vote any day for competency testing. Again for the greater good.

    Owning a weapon is not a right I don't care what you say. It is also a privilege. Also the felon thing. That wasn't what they were talking about when they made the second amendment but again we made the rule for the greater good. only people pissed at that rule were people under 21. Likewise if they made a rule where you had to be tested, JUST TAKE AND PASS THE TEST, or do what needs to be done to comply. Only people it effects are people who cannot comply. And that's not me so I could careless.

    The 2nd amendment doesn't even have anything to do with firearms. It has to do with the right to overthrow an over controlling government and while yea firearms make that easier to do, the second amendment wasn't made to give anyone a gun who wants one and let them carry it openly to scare people. we change rules everyday to make things better for everyone. Rules must change to keep up with the times.
     
  13. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    I guess if me wanting more required testing showing competency and controls making it harder for any idiot to acquire a gun and carry it in public makes me anti gun then I guess I'm anti gun. 21 doesn't make you able to own and properly use a weapon. Pure and simple and anyone who thinks that is enough to pass the test is either ignorant or stupid and so pro gun they could. Be considered an extremeist and I stop listening.

    I don't trust people. I have no faith in people and arming everyone on the streets doesn't make me feel safer.
     
  14. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    Prohibition was also an amendment. How did that turn out? Its called repeal.
     
  15. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Really? Then what does 'Arms' mean here?

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
     
  16. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    Where does this 21 year old carrying s glock in McDonald's = well regulated militia? Gotta be kidding me
     
  17. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

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    This is akin to a literacy test that was used to keep poor black people from voting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
     
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  18. Don H

    Don H Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say that? Just because you don't understand the original intent of Constitution doesn't make me wrong.
     
  19. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    Oh yes. Because a simple range test would just inihibit soooo many people from owning a gun. Seriously? If you cant pass a simple test then you shouldn't have one. You are the same kind of person that says there should be no drinking age or anything. Basically an anarchist. With freedom comes sacrifice
     
  20. Mbeef61

    Mbeef61 SW PDX Active Member

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    Haha there is no agreement with you. But just know if it comes down to a vote. My vote will obviously cancel yours so you better start preaching your beliefs because it becoming more and more obvious in time you will be in the minority thinking there