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Who determines constitutionality? Has that body decided on multiple occasions that gun laws are constitutional?
We can get large groups of people to agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to modern technology. The claim that "people have agreed that current gun laws are constitutional," requires the acceptance of the notion that the founders did not in fact mean what they wrote in the constitution, and that "shall not be infringed" in fact was just a suggestion.
 
We can get large groups of people to agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to modern technology. The claim that "people have agreed that current gun laws are constitutional," requires the acceptance of the notion that the founders did not in fact mean what they wrote in the constitution, and that "shall not be infringed" in fact was just a suggestion.
Accepting laws is a personal choice that isnt going to change anything. The law of the land isnt validated by YOUR acceptance of it. You still live under it, oppressed by it if you feel that way, but its still there and you are still subject to that "unconstitutional law" that was ruled actually constitutional by the body that does that as part of its mandate. Its not the people , or a majority of the people, but just 5 out of 9 justices. .
 
Accepting laws is a personal choice that isnt going to change anything. The law of the land isnt validated by YOUR acceptance of it. You still live under it, oppressed by it if you feel that way, but its still there and you are still subject to that "unconstitutional law" that was ruled actually constitutional by the body that does that as part of its mandate. Its not the people , or a majority of the people, but just 5 out of 9 justices. .
The government says so, so it must be, gotcha.
 
The constitutionality of laws is determined by the courts. It says as much in the constitution. The courts have ruled that firearm centric laws can be constitutional. You dont determine constitutionality. Neither do I . The courts do.
The same courts that are legislating from the bench? The same courts that are using non-constitutional law to interpret the constitution? The same courts that have self avowed Marxist judges appointed by and for globalists? The same courts who have refused to hear cases of direct and dire constitutional importance? The same courts who have leaked decisions in an effort to intimidate non-conforming judges? The legislative branch is corrupt, the executive branch is corrupt, but we are supposed to believe the judicial branch isn't?

Not trying to be a argumentative, that's just putting a lot of faith in an already demonstrably corrupt court system.

When the other two branches of government already ignore the constitution to suit their whims, would it actually matter if the court ruled red flag laws unconstitutional?
 
The same courts that are legislating from the bench? The same courts that are using non-constitutional law to interpret the constitution? The same courts that have self avowed Marxist judges appointed by and for globalists? The same courts who have refused to hear cases of direct and dire constitutional importance? The same courts who have leaked decisions in an effort to intimidate non-conforming judges? The legislative branch is corrupt, the executive branch is corrupt, but we are supposed to believe the judicial branch isn't?

Not trying to be a argumentative, that's just putting a lot of faith in an already demonstrably corrupt court system.

When the other two branches of government already ignore the constitution to suit their whims, would it actually matter if the court ruled red flag laws unconstitutional?
Indeed.
 
The same courts that are legislating from the bench? The same courts that are using non-constitutional law to interpret the constitution? The same courts that have self avowed Marxist judges appointed by and for globalists? The same courts who have refused to hear cases of direct and dire constitutional importance? The same courts who have leaked decisions in an effort to intimidate non-conforming judges? The legislative branch is corrupt, the executive branch is corrupt, but we are supposed to believe the judicial branch isn't?

Not trying to be a argumentative, that's just putting a lot of faith in an already demonstrably corrupt court system.

When the other two branches of government already ignore the constitution to suit their whims, would it actually matter if the court ruled red flag laws unconstitutional?
It doesnt matter one bit if you put your faith in anything. Thats the system you live with.
 
Accepting laws is a personal choice that isnt going to change anything. The law of the land isnt validated by YOUR acceptance of it. You still live under it, oppressed by it if you feel that way, but its still there and you are still subject to that "unconstitutional law" that was ruled actually constitutional by the body that does that as part of its mandate. Its not the people , or a majority of the people, but just 5 out of 9 justices. .
What exactly are you trying to get at then? Are you trying to convince us to be defeatists like yourself, or are you actually arguing in favor of government overreach?

If you want to be a proud, white-flag-waving defeatist over the disregard of the Constitution, more power to you; just don't get upset when members of a 2A supporting forum vent about how unconstitutional infringements are being proposed, passed, and embraced!
 
I along with many others share his views.

Well, that sounds good to me, 'boss. I really don't think anyone participating in this thread is going to have their mind changed or opinion swayed by anyone else on this thread, anyway. So, you go to your church and I'll go to mine, right? Seeing as it's Tuesday - and not raining - my immediate plan for the evening is to slam some tacos and take my grandson trapshooting. I think Thomas Jefferson would be down with that.
 
It doesnt matter one bit if you put your faith in anything. Thats the system you live with.
There is the system it started as... then there is the system it has become.

The system is clearly broken. And it's because almost none of the people making, enforcing, or interpreting the law are actually following the law.

We should not be comfortable with this corruption and lawlessness as status quo. If the founding fathers had stayed comfortable with the corrupt system they lived with at the time, we'd still be under British rule.
 
For me it's more of just being a little burned out and jaded over a broad swath of people (as in: Not just on here) having selective outrage over how something will effect them but either ignoring or actively dismissing how the same issue effect's others. Sometimes referred to as Not In My Back Yard NIMBY, like the Al Gore crowd demanding we invest in renewable energy but then getting all upset that they might have to see windmills off the shore in Kennebunkport. Or locally when all the Limousine Liberals fought so hard for infill zoning changes and then freaked out and demanded carve outs for THEIR neighborhoods because the new zoning would "change the fabric of their community"

I get the concern being voiced around Red Flag laws, but the feared outcome of those laws is a reality right now and (for the most part) I haven't really seen anyone voice concern, more often than not it's "They should have just compiled and none of this would have happened"
This here makes a wee bit o' sense…. plus SCOTUS recently ruled 9-0 against a "red flag" issue, so….

 
SCOTUS recently ruled 9-0 against a "red flag" issue
Well, it was a police sergeant doing a warrantless search and seizure and not a EPO issued by a court, so I guess Tuckers record is intact :rolleyes:

During an argument with his wife, petitioner Edward Caniglia placed a handgun on the dining room table and asked his wife to "shoot [him] and get it over with." His wife instead left the home and spent the night at a hotel. The next morning, she was unable to reach her husband by phone, so she called the police to request a welfare check. The responding officers accompanied Caniglia's wife to the home, where they encountered Caniglia on the porch. The officers called an ambulance based on the belief that Caniglia posed a risk to himself or others. Caniglia agreed to go to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation on the condition that the officers not confiscate his firearms. But once Caniglia left, the officers located and seized his weapons. Caniglia sued, claiming that the officers had entered his home and seized him and his firearms without a warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment. The District Court granted summary judgment to the officers. The First Circuit affirmed, extrapolating from the Court's decision in Cady v. Dombrowski, 413 U. S. 433, a theory that the officers' removal of Caniglia and his firearms from his home was justified by a "community caretaking exception" to the warrant requirement. Held: Neither the holding nor logic of Cady justifies such warrantless searches and seizures in the home. Cady held that a warrantless search of an impounded vehicle for an unsecured firearm did not violate the Fourth Amendment. In reaching this conclusion, the Court noted that the officers who patrol the "public highways" are often called to discharge noncriminal "community caretaking functions," such as responding to disabled vehicles or investigating accidents. 413 U. S., at 441. But searches of vehicles and homes are constitutionally different, as the Cady opinion repeatedly stressed. Id., at 439, 440– 442. The very core of the Fourth Amendment's guarantee is the right 2 CANIGLIA v. STROM Syllabus of a person to retreat into his or her home and "there be free from unreasonable governmental intrusion." Florida v. Jardines, 569 U. S. 1, 6. A recognition of the existence of "community caretaking" tasks, like rendering aid to motorists in disabled vehicles, is not an open-ended license to perform them anywhere. Pp. 3–4. 953 F. 3d 112, vacated and remanded. THOMAS, J., delivered the opinion for a unanimous Court. ROBERTS, C. J., filed a concurring opinion, in which BREYER, J., joined. ALITO, J., and KAVANAUGH, J., filed concurring opinions.

 
RE : Post #224

What's the difference between these two groups?

1655252414888.png

1655252546092.png

Answer : One group (it is alledged) planned to have a riot.

While the other group?
Awwww....forgetaboutit.

BUT, But, but.....
It's always good to have friends in Politics (and other High Places).

Aloha, Mark
 
Last Edited:
Well, it was a police sergeant doing a warrantless search and seizure and not a EPO issued by a court, so I guess Tuckers record is intact :rolleyes:

During an argument with his wife, petitioner Edward Caniglia placed a handgun on the dining room table and asked his wife to "shoot [him] and get it over with." His wife instead left the home and spent the night at a hotel. The next morning, she was unable to reach her husband by phone, so she called the police to request a welfare check. The responding officers accompanied Caniglia's wife to the home, where they encountered Caniglia on the porch. The officers called an ambulance based on the belief that Caniglia posed a risk to himself or others. Caniglia agreed to go to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation on the condition that the officers not confiscate his firearms. But once Caniglia left, the officers located and seized his weapons. Caniglia sued, claiming that the officers had entered his home and seized him and his firearms without a warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment. The District Court granted summary judgment to the officers. The First Circuit affirmed, extrapolating from the Court's decision in Cady v. Dombrowski, 413 U. S. 433, a theory that the officers' removal of Caniglia and his firearms from his home was justified by a "community caretaking exception" to the warrant requirement. Held: Neither the holding nor logic of Cady justifies such warrantless searches and seizures in the home. Cady held that a warrantless search of an impounded vehicle for an unsecured firearm did not violate the Fourth Amendment. In reaching this conclusion, the Court noted that the officers who patrol the "public highways" are often called to discharge noncriminal "community caretaking functions," such as responding to disabled vehicles or investigating accidents. 413 U. S., at 441. But searches of vehicles and homes are constitutionally different, as the Cady opinion repeatedly stressed. Id., at 439, 440– 442. The very core of the Fourth Amendment's guarantee is the right 2 CANIGLIA v. STROM Syllabus of a person to retreat into his or her home and "there be free from unreasonable governmental intrusion." Florida v. Jardines, 569 U. S. 1, 6. A recognition of the existence of "community caretaking" tasks, like rendering aid to motorists in disabled vehicles, is not an open-ended license to perform them anywhere. Pp. 3–4. 953 F. 3d 112, vacated and remanded. THOMAS, J., delivered the opinion for a unanimous Court. ROBERTS, C. J., filed a concurring opinion, in which BREYER, J., joined. ALITO, J., and KAVANAUGH, J., filed concurring opinions.

I never said the plaintiff in that case wasn't a DF…. LOL!
 

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