Frontsight Firearms Training Tips & Experiences

[billt]

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A Gun and a Dream [Class-action lawsuit filed against Front Sight's Scientologist founder]

 

[parallax]

An interesting read... thnxs billt

 

[Kevatc]

Here is the big problem with guys like Piazza. He operates on the pretense of "Promise them everything, and deliver $h!t." Take his "Front Sight Master Planned Community", for example. If he were an above board guy, this kind of thing could be easily made to happen, assuming he had the people and money behind him to make it happen. He did not.

1.) Get a bunch of people together who have money, like guns, and would like to live in a community where others like to engage in much the same thing. A bit like the place where John Travolta lives. "Jumbolair", or some such aviation community that has hangers and a runway so you can keep your plane, or planes, right where you live, taxi out, and take off.

Piazza did none of the above. Much like a common thief who deals in deception, he did not have the money or investors secured to make any, let alone all of his "Master Planned Community" happen. The result was class action law suits, expensive judgements, (Most of which he cannot pay), and a whole bunch of pissed off people who were screwed over by this total a$$hat, who had no intentions of delivering as promised, WHAT HE HAD PROMISED. In this regard he is nothing more than a miniature Bernie Madoff. What prevented him from attaining Madoff's status was his own stupidity. He simply wasn't as good of a crook. This guy is simply a walking screw job waiting to strike at the first avaliable victim who is dumb enough to go for his "bait".

You just might make out on one of his "Firearms Training Deals". But trust me if you do you will have to sit through a high pressure sales seminar to do it. There will most certainly be someone else down the road, like in the past, who will get financially raped by this POS. He simply doesn't have an honest bone in his body. His track record proves that. You can swim with the sharks, and get a hell of a rush if you succeed. That rush however, is provided by the people who get eaten.

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A Gun and a Dream [Class-action lawsuit filed against Front Sight's Scientologist founder]

Oye. That's enough for me. The Scientology crap alone is should make everyone very leery of this cat. I've always told my wife that the only reason I would ever want to go to the Las Vegas area is to do a Front Sight class. Not now.

Have you attended other shooting schools in the Western US that impressed you?

I know your question isn't directed to me but I would suggest OFA. Google them. Not anything compared to Front Sight in terms of size and space but I bet the instruction is on par with the BEST of any school out there.

 

[sbmitt]

Ignatius Piazza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Like I said, I don't go to Frontsight to hang with Piazza but I've bet some quality people and trainers there. With our membership, we can take any class for the rest of our lives or as long as FS is around. Since I paid $250 for that membership and have already received 9 days of instruction, I have gotten my moneys worth in my opinion.

I've priced closer schools and they are about $200/day or $1000-ish for a week. I'm certain they are very good and worth it and may be better than what my wife and I experienced at FS. We do like the climate and the people we've met there.

PS: We are Evangelical Christians and not into Scientology. I was told about it by a fellow Christian who is a leader of a youth ministry and gun enthusiast. We didn't get any sort of indoctrination when we were there.

 

[Kevatc]

Here is the big problem with guys like Piazza. He operates on the pretense of "Promise them everything, and deliver $h!t." Take his "Front Sight Master Planned Community", for example. If he were an above board guy, this kind of thing could be easily made to happen, assuming he had the people and money behind him to make it happen. He did not.

1.) Get a bunch of people together who have money, like guns, and would like to live in a community where others like to engage in much the same thing. A bit like the place where John Travolta lives. "Jumbolair", or some such aviation community that has hangers and a runway so you can keep your plane, or planes, right where you live, taxi out, and take off.



2.) Sell off the lots to affluent individuals who can afford these type of lifestyles, and who will agree to build in accordance to set rules and size constrictions.

3.) Sell and supervise construction until all avaliable lots and home sites are sold, and all promised amenities are provided for as in all of the the original signed contracts.

Piazza did none of the above. Much like a common thief who deals in deception, he did not have the money or investors secured to make any, let alone all of his "Master Planned Community" happen. The result was class action law suits, expensive judgements, (Most of which he cannot pay), and a whole bunch of pissed off people who were screwed over by this total a$$hat, who had no intentions of delivering as promised, WHAT HE HAD PROMISED. In this regard he is nothing more than a miniature Bernie Madoff. What prevented him from attaining Madoff's status was his own stupidity. He simply wasn't as good of a crook. This guy is simply a walking screw job waiting to strike at the first avaliable victim who is dumb enough to go for his "bait".

You just might make out on one of his "Firearms Training Deals". But trust me if you do you will have to sit through a high pressure sales seminar to do it. There will most certainly be someone else down the road, like in the past, who will get financially raped by this POS. He simply doesn't have an honest bone in his body. His track record proves that. You can swim with the sharks, and get a hell of a rush if you succeed. That rush however, is provided by the people who get eaten.

You seem very passionate about Piazza. Would you be willing to send links to some documentation you used to form your opinions about his history? I found some stuff in WikiPedia, but I've been trying to find something official or news reports that that is not just someone airing their opinions. I am interested in getting as much of the whole story as possible.

Which class(es) did you attend at Frontsight?

Have you attended other shooting schools in the Western US that impressed you?

<broken link removed>

<broken link removed>

A Gun and a Dream [Class-action lawsuit filed against Front Sight's Scientologist founder]

Ignatius Piazza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Like I said, I don't go to Frontsight to hang with Piazza but I've bet some quality people and trainers there. With our membership, we can take any class for the rest of our lives or as long as FS is around. Since I paid $250 for that membership and have already received 9 days of instruction, I have gotten my moneys worth in my opinion.

I've priced closer schools and they are about $200/day or $1000-ish for a week. I'm certain they are very good and worth it and may be better than what my wife and I experienced at FS. We do like the climate and the people we've met there.

Glad you had a good experience there. Having just had to sit through a hard sell on a time share experience there is NO fargin way I am ever doing that again. Hard sell on decent shooting schools is a recipe for business failure. Add in the Scientology BS and I hope Piazza drowns in debt and takes Scientology with it.

Look locally ... there has to be some reputable schools around. Seriously, if you have to literally buy in to keep getting to attend ... well that is a red flag to me.

 

[sbmitt]

Having just had to sit through a hard sell on a time share experience there is NO fargin way I am ever doing that again. Hard sell on decent shooting schools is a recipe for business failure.

Fortunately for us, the presentations and classes are nothing like the pushy sensational style of the marketing. It's reasonable to assume your experience on site would be more the same. However, the former LEOs and former military that do the lectures simply speak from their experience in the field which seem like good common sense stuff.

Of course there was some "woo-hoo Frontsight" videos during lunch which is expected.

I've been to timeshare presentations. Either can't do something until you endure the presentation and/or you get pinned in a corner and have to go through 2-3 layers of "No I don't want this." before you get your "free gift" and get out. There was none of that during the two times we've attended.

I'm not trying to carry water for some of the questionable or fringe stuff you've shared here. However, I am interested in presenting an accurate view of what people will experience if they attend Frontsight.

I don't have any skin in the game regarding if someone goes or not. If they find a good fit locally, all the better.

 

[Kevatc]

Fortunately for us, the presentations and classes are nothing like the pushy sensational style of the marketing. It's reasonable to assume your experience on site would be more the same. However, the former LEOs and former military that do the lectures simply speak from their experience in the field which seem like good common sense stuff.

Of course there was some "woo-hoo Frontsight" videos during lunch which is expected.

I've been to timeshare presentations. Either can't do something until you endure the presentation and/or you get pinned in a corner and have to go through 2-3 layers of "No I don't want this." before you get your "free gift" and get out. There was none of that during the two times we've attended.

I'm not trying to carry water for some of the questionable or fringe stuff you've shared here. However, I am interested in presenting an accurate view of what people will experience if they attend Frontsight.

I don't have any skin in the game regarding if someone goes or not. If they find a good fit locally, all the better.

Like I said previously: good for you having a good experience. Just the same I would be very surprised to hear of another reputable shooting school using the same tactics to increase it's membership. In fact, on "further review" it seems weird to me that a shooting school would push the "membership" idea. Seems to me the best shooting schools earn their business through good classes and word of mouth and not do a "time share" sell to get more business.

 

[j.barnum]

I guess I have a dog in this fight. I paid $69 for the 4 day handgun class.
I just have not driven back down to take the week day defensive handgun class.
Several years ago I stopped in Parhump at a casino RV camping spot. My RV neighbor took out to the Frontsight facility on a Sunday. I saw 300-400 people being trained,( well it looked like that many by the cars in the lot. I got the tour and talk with several trainers. All nice people.
I certainly agree about the email marketing and the idea of membership. However, I think one needs to review what is currently being sold. Nothing is being stated about owning or buying a piece of property. What they are trying to get you to bring in others for training. Of course, if you spent the money for a membership it comes with varying free classes for life. The latest video shows the current expansion for the training buildings, restrooms, and etc. That being said, the latest theme is to become California certified. Frontsight is pushing to get a concealed gun permit passed. If they get certified then they will expand to where they will be training 1000's per weekend instead of just thousands per month.
I am sure that those from the far Eastern states who have signed up for membership will never use their dreams. The cost to travel plus motels will exceed value for the training. I could be wrong.....
Some day, soon I hope, to take in the 4 day class. If they eliminate my purchase for the 4 week day class, I will let you know as well. So If I ever do I will provide a honest answer of what happens.

 

[sbmitt]

Some day, soon I hope, to take in the 4 day class. If they eliminate my purchase for the 4 week day class, I will let you know as well. So If I ever do I will provide a honest answer of what happens.

We're headed down there 3/30-4/2 with 10-15 friends from Seattle and Utah. We'd love to have another in our group. Let me know if you have any questions about travel costs, etc. unless you're planning on a road trip. Happy to answer any questions for people considering attending.

RE: Membership...it's awesome! 4 days of excellent training locally would be $700-1,200 each. My wife and I can travel from Seattle and train for 4 days while getting some sun for under $1,480 all-in including $260 for 1200 rounds ammo. If we split the travel costs with 1-2 friends our cost goes down a couple hundred bucks. We love it!