Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

[sobo]

Ahh I see that point in time now thx. I also see at the 6:59 mark u can clearly see that dep Thoman knows the perp is on the other side of the white sheriffs vehicle while his partner (potters the one who got shot) is shooting in the other direction at the car.

Yup, it's clear by Thoman's expression that he sees the perp on the blind side of Potters. Why he doesn't alert Potters is beyond me.

again I understand why potters lost track of the perp due to being shot. But Thoman? Maybe he was just extremely green? His partner is shot and shooting in the wrong direction and he says NOTHING as the perp sneaks around behind his partner. And he doesn't cover his partner. At the 7:02mark it looks very clear to me that Thoman is using his partners body as cover. Watch for yourself to see if you agree. Then he ejects his mag as the guy is beating on his partner. Holy smokes.

I hadn't noticed that element before, but I think you're right, he sure does seem to line himself up behind Potters and use him as cover.

another thought I had is maybe dep Thoman was so rattled (and thus lost his mag) because his partner was in the line of fire from his gun to the perp. That never should have happened, maybe if he was less worried about backing away and more worried about covering his partner or at least warning him the perp was coming up behind him. Just looks really bad from my point of view on that deputy. He knew the perp was sneaking around behind but instead of covering his partner and dropping the guy he moves away, then lost his mag, then ran away again to reload. He could have covered his partner because he knew the guy was coming around behind the sheriffs rig.

I agree, it looks pretty bad for Thoman from a future partner selection sense. I can see where a few deputies might not want him as back-up going forward.

 

[Alexx1401]

Yup, it's clear by Thoman's expression that he sees the perp on the blind side of Potters. Why he doesn't alert Potters is beyond me.

I hadn't noticed that element before, but I think you're right, he sure does seem to line himself up behind Potters and use him as cover.

I agree, it looks pretty bad for Thoman from a future partner selection sense. I can see where a few deputies might not want him as back-up going forward.

I know it's "easy to say" but, sadly many just are not "cut out for this". Couple years ago I helped a young guy I worked with get his dream job. He wanted to be a Cop. When he got the OK and was ready I played a tape for him from the city police here that had happened a few months before. Call was a domestic. Scum was upstairs. First LEO guy comes around the corner of the stair case with rifle and shoots him, darts back up the stairs in the home. His "partner" ran from the home, screaming into her mic that he was shot and screaming for help. I know if it was me? I would NOT have run and left my partner to lay there. I would have been covering the corner and trying to grab something to drag him out while waiting for the scum to show his face around that corner. I played the tape for the guy as a warning. That this is often the kind of people he will be working with. He said no way in hell he would have run screaming from the home either. I believe him. Its just not the job for everyone.

 

[Devneck]

I want to make it clear up front that the attacker in this video was clearly trying to murder those officers and is fully responsible for what happened to him. That said, there are two things that I strongly disagree with. The Sherriff said "... and to those out there who might be foolish enough to ask why we shot him so many times, that answer is simple: Because Evil can never be dead enough."
I get that he's upset and I have no sympathy for the attacker, but those words are going to come back to haunt him, as they should. It is not the job of Law Enforcement to assure that someone is dead. You stop shooting when the threat is over, not when the attacker is dead. Even if both events occur at the same time, you'd better be clear which one affected your decision. I see no evidence that the Officers in the video did anything wrong, but the Sherriff sure did.

He also called the gun a "pistol grip style high powered rifle" and a "small-stocked AR15 style rifle". As you can see in the screen capture below, it is neither of those. It is an AR pistol. A LEO in his position is expected to know such things. While I am very supportive of LE in general and I commend his officers' actions, this Sherriff is remarkably irresponsible and does not belong in a position of authority.

View attachment 1029848

I also have an issue with after the suspect goes around the car that the one officer still fires 3 rounds in the direction where the suspect is no longer at. That isn't exactly "knowing your target and what's behind it"

Disclaimer: I've never been (and hopefully never will be) in a scenario like this though.

 

[Flopsweat]

Here's an interesting take on the Sherriff's presentation. I say "interesting" because it's mine.

Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video. And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[sobo]

Here's an interesting take on the Sherriff's presentation. I say "interesting" because it's mine.

Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video. And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne...

www.northwestfirearms.com

Saw that. Tend to agree. Sheriff Ivey needs to watch his mouth.

 

[sobo]

I also have an issue with after the suspect goes around the car that the one officer still fires 3 rounds in the direction where the suspect is no longer at. That isn't exactly "knowing your target and what's behind it"

As I mentioned in Item #1, here:

 

[sobo]

@Andy54Hawken and/or @No_Regerts
Can we get a merge of this thread of mine with this one of @L84Cabo's?

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/florida-deputies-ambushed-during-traffic-stop.386441/

ETA: @Moderators Can we get @titsonritz's thread merged into the above two threads, please?
We've now got three, count 'em, three! threads on the exact same incident.
It would facilitate discussion to consolidate them all so that the info is localized into just one.
TIA.

"Evil can never be dead enough."

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[titsonritz]

 

[Koda]

"but the recidivism rate shows longer sentences dont work..."

 

[Saladfarmer]

Great example of how ineffective a shot in the leg is.
As well as, careful of that mag release.

 

[sobo]

@Moderators Can we get this thread merged with the other two... PLEASE?

Florida deputy-involved shooting like you won't believe!

Happened a coupla weeks ago, but the dash cam footage is out now. I'm pretty sure John Correia at ASP is gonna pick this one apart, so you might want to study up on the video now for the quiz. I see four things that are concerning to me that could have had some pretty disastrous consequences...

www.northwestfirearms.com

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/florida-deputies-ambushed-during-traffic-stop.386441/

 

[bbbass]

Rasta MF

 

[EHJ]

I love Florida cops... (previous news briefing about the apprehension of a cop killer by SWAT...)

"Why did you guys shoot him 68 times...?"

"We ran out of bullets."

 

[03A3Sporter]

I love Florida cops... (previous news briefing about the apprehension of a cop killer by SWAT...)

"Why did you guys shoot him 68 times...?"

"We ran out of bullets."

Vegas Cops have a very similar ROE , there are a lot of jurisdictions that have fairly liberal shoot policies when someone decides to go full bandido .

 

[Member 53328]

I think I saw that guy on Bad Boys 2….Good thing he can't shoot for $hit. Prayers for the deputies and their families. Glad they are alive.

 

[jbett98]

The cop that was hit took time to shoot at the other guy who was booking out of there and not focusing on the guy who was actively trying to kill him.
If not for his partner, the bad guy that came up on his backside would have finished him off.

 

[titsonritz]

The cop that was hit took time to shoot at the other guy who was booking put of there and not focusing on the guy who was actively trying to kill him.
If not for his partner, the bad guy that came up on his backside would have finished him off.

I think, he thought that was the guy. He had no clue the real bad guy had circled around behind him.

 

[sobo]

jbett98 says:
The cop that was hit took time to shoot at the other guy who was booking put of there and not focusing on the guy who was actively trying to kill him.
If not for his partner, the bad guy that came up on his backside would have finished him off.

Do not agree with the emphasized statement above at all. The partner (Dep. Thoman) was of no help until after he reloaded his accidentally-ejected mag, circled around the back of the patrol car (the one with the dashcam filming the incident), and approached the thug from behind and mag-dumped into him.
From the time of the ejected mag (7:04) until the first shots from Dep. Thoman are taken at the thug (7:16), no less than 12 seconds elapse while Dep. Thoman retreats, reloads, circles around the back of the cruiser, and engages the thug, in which time Dep. Potters would have most certainly been killed had not the thug's trunk gun not jammed on him.

Incident deconstructed by video timestamp here:

Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video. And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[jbett98]

He missed all his shots, lucky for that dude.

 

[Camelfilter]

@Moderators Can we get this thread merged with the other two... PLEASE?

Florida deputy-involved shooting like you won't believe!

Happened a coupla weeks ago, but the dash cam footage is out now. I'm pretty sure John Correia at ASP is gonna pick this one apart, so you might want to study up on the video now for the quiz. I see four things that are concerning to me that could have had some pretty disastrous consequences...

www.northwestfirearms.com

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/florida-deputies-ambushed-during-traffic-stop.386441/

3 threads merged, moved to general discussion area (all 3 were in different areas)...