Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

[L84Cabo]

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video.

And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne Ivey...

For those out there foolish enough to ask why we shot him so many times...That answer is simple...because evil can never be dead enough!

And that my friends is how you handle a press conference!

Story here...

Florida deputies ambushed during traffic stop; sheriff says they battled ‘for their lives’

Deputies say Paris Wilder of Cocoa opened fire on deputies after he was asked to leave a vehicle. The video shows Wilder get out of the back of the car and begin shooting at deputy Brian Potters.

www.wfla.com

Read More

 

[sobo]

Happened a coupla weeks ago, but the dash cam footage is out now.
I'm pretty sure John Correia at ASP is gonna pick this one apart, so you might want to study up on the video now for the quiz.

I see four things that are concerning to me that could have had some pretty disastrous consequences.
Luckily, both deputies and all unarmed civilians survived the encounter.

1. 6:58 - Dep. Potters fires at least three rounds blindly into the vehicle (or at the unarmed guy that ran off - the guy in the orange shorts that initially was leaning against the trunk) while the actual threat is not even visible to him (failure to properly identify target - he coulda shot/killed either orange-shorts-guy or the baby in the backseat, or hell, even the dog).
2. 7:00 - Dep. Thoman comes around Dep. Potters' right side and almost runs into Potters' line of fire and damned near gets his head blown off (lacks SA).
3. 7:02 - Both deputies completely lose SA and allow this creep to sneak up behind them and gain tactical advantage (loss of SA).
4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

In summary, if it wasn't for this creep's trunk gun jamming, at least one, and quite possibly two, deputies would be in caskets right now.
As it turned out, only one thug is in the morgue...

Graphic warning. Skip to 3:30 for the actual event and to 5:38 for the slo-mo play-by-play.
But I gotta say, everyone should watch this from start to finish. What the Sheriff has to say at 5:15 is priceless!

Florida sheriff defends deputy-involved shooting after ambush attack: 'Evil can never be dead enough'

Florida authorities released dash camera footage of a deputy-involved shooting that ended with a dead suspect who was out on bond at the time for drug trafficking cases and had multiple convictions for violent offenses, officials said Thursday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Alexx1401]

I had just seen this minuets ago. I have to say I was also shocked at the poor showing by the LEO's. I know its easy to Monday Morning stuff like this but, I have to guess this was them getting way too complacent in the job. That the guy was able to come up behind them both like that was the worst. You are right they are probably only alive due to his weapon failing him.

 

[revjen45]

Too bad Dep. Thoman didn't have a bigger magazine.

 

[Longwalkhome]

A long criminal history but out on the street, we know the revolving door gets people killed.

 

[Flopsweat]

I want to make it clear up front that the attacker in this video was clearly trying to murder those officers and is fully responsible for what happened to him. That said, there are two things that I strongly disagree with. The Sherriff said "... and to those out there who might be foolish enough to ask why we shot him so many times, that answer is simple: Because Evil can never be dead enough."
I get that he's upset and I have no sympathy for the attacker, but those words are going to come back to haunt him, as they should. It is not the job of Law Enforcement to assure that someone is dead. You stop shooting when the threat is over, not when the attacker is dead. Even if both events occur at the same time, you'd better be clear which one affected your decision. I see no evidence that the Officers in the video did anything wrong, but the Sherriff sure did.

He also called the gun a "pistol grip style high powered rifle" and a "small-stocked AR15 style rifle". As you can see in the screen capture below, it is neither of those. It is an AR pistol. A LEO in his position is expected to know such things. While I am very supportive of LE in general and I commend his officers' actions, this Sherriff is remarkably irresponsible and does not belong in a position of authority.

 

[Flopsweat]

Duplicate of this thread from yesterday:

Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video. And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[BBQ Guy]

Happened a coupla weeks ago, but the dash cam footage is out now.
I'm pretty sure John Correia at ASP is gonna pick this one apart, so you might want to study up on the video now for the quiz.

I see four things that are concerning to me that could have had some pretty disastrous consequences.
Luckily, both deputies and all unarmed civilians survived the encounter.

1. 6:58 - Dep. Potters fires at least three rounds blindly into the vehicle (or at the unarmed guy that ran off - the guy in the orange shorts that initially was leaning against the trunk) while the actual threat is not even visible to him (failure to properly identify target - he coulda shot/killed either orange-shorts-guy or the baby in the backseat, or hell, even the dog).
2. 7:00 - Dep. Thoman comes around Dep. Potters' right side and almost runs into Potters' line of fire and damned near gets his head blown off (lacks SA).
3. 7:02 - Both deputies completely lose SA and allow this creep to sneak up behind them and gain tactical advantage (loss of SA).
4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

In summary, if it wasn't for this creep's trunk gun jamming, at least one, and quite possibly two, deputies would be in caskets right now.
As it turned out, only one thug is in the morgue...

Graphic warning. Skip to 3:30 for the actual event and to 5:38 for the slo-mo play-by-play.
But I gotta say, everyone should watch this from start to finish. What the Sheriff has to say at 5:15 is priceless!

Florida sheriff defends deputy-involved shooting after ambush attack: 'Evil can never be dead enough'

Florida authorities released dash camera footage of a deputy-involved shooting that ended with a dead suspect who was out on bond at the time for drug trafficking cases and had multiple convictions for violent offenses, officials said Thursday.

www.foxnews.com

Am I bad for saying that the conclusion was rather satisfying to watch?

 

[sobo]

Am I bad for saying that the conclusion was rather satisfying to watch?

Not at all... Schadenfreude...

 

[sobo]

Duplicate of this thread from yesterday:

Florida Deputies Ambushed During Traffic Stop

This is a hell of a gun fight between Brevard County Deputies and a career felon using an AR15 pistol. Both cops survived thankfully. And the bad guy got his bubblegum lit up. There's no blood but it's pretty raw video. And here's my favorite quote from Brevard County Sheriff, Wayne...

www.northwestfirearms.com

Sorry, didn't see it when I OP'ed this thread. Didn't think to look in The Den. Didn't figger it needed to be that hidden from view.

If a mod would like to merge these two threads, I take no issue with that whatsoever.

 

[Alexx1401]

Am I bad for saying that the conclusion was rather satisfying to watch?

NO! I too was glad. I try not to take pleasure is seeing anyone killed BUT, this scum was no more to me that putting down a dangerous animal. He tried real hard to kill both LEO's. Only dumb luck saved the Cops. If he would have succeeded in killing them he would have then run. Probably killed others only to be taken alive when he gave up. Then we would have paid to keep him alive and healthy the rest of his life and for what? Money that could be much better spent.

 

[Flopsweat]

Sorry, didn't see it when I OP'ed this thread. Didn't think to look in The Den. Didn't figger it needed to be that hidden from view.

If a mod would like to merge these two threads, I take no issue with that whatsoever.

@Moderators can we get a merge?

Dupe of https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/florida-deputies-ambushed-during-traffic-stop.386441

 

[leverite]

Ok...I am an idiot...
Where is the clip.? The Fox link only showx current news vids.

 

[Flopsweat]

Ok...I am an idiot...
Where is the clip.? The Fox link only showx current news vids.

Works for me but here's the link

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Happened a coupla weeks ago, but the dash cam footage is out now.
I'm pretty sure John Correia at ASP is gonna pick this one apart, so you might want to study up on the video now for the quiz.

I see four things that are concerning to me that could have had some pretty disastrous consequences.
Luckily, both deputies and all unarmed civilians survived the encounter.

1. 6:58 - Dep. Potters fires at least three rounds blindly into the vehicle (or at the unarmed guy that ran off - the guy in the orange shorts that initially was leaning against the trunk) while the actual threat is not even visible to him (failure to properly identify target - he coulda shot/killed either orange-shorts-guy or the baby in the backseat, or hell, even the dog).
2. 7:00 - Dep. Thoman comes around Dep. Potters' right side and almost runs into Potters' line of fire and damned near gets his head blown off (lacks SA).
3. 7:02 - Both deputies completely lose SA and allow this creep to sneak up behind them and gain tactical advantage (loss of SA).
4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

In summary, if it wasn't for this creep's trunk gun jamming, at least one, and quite possibly two, deputies would be in caskets right now.
As it turned out, only one thug is in the morgue...

Graphic warning. Skip to 3:30 for the actual event and to 5:38 for the slo-mo play-by-play.
But I gotta say, everyone should watch this from start to finish. What the Sheriff has to say at 5:15 is priceless!

Florida sheriff defends deputy-involved shooting after ambush attack: 'Evil can never be dead enough'

Florida authorities released dash camera footage of a deputy-involved shooting that ended with a dead suspect who was out on bond at the time for drug trafficking cases and had multiple convictions for violent offenses, officials said Thursday.

www.foxnews.com

Holy hell u said it! The one deputy who was shot I totally understand why he thought the perp was in the car (I'm not saying anything about firing blindly into the car, only that when u are shot it takes a bit to regain ur composure and it's understandable he lost the suspects position).

The second deputy though, where the heck was he and why didn't he keep track of where the perp was? I mean the perp had a hobbling and long round about way to get to them and he didn't see any of that? I don't get it at all. Kind of looks like he just hid or something? Then it almost looks like he ran away again when his partner was being attacked physically? Am I seeing that right?

 

[sobo]

Then it almost looks like he ran away again when his partner was being attacked physically? Am I seeing that right?

Yes, you are. He did run away.
After Dep. Thoman prematurely ejected his mag, he realized he was defenseless against the attacker.
He backed/ran away and somewhere along the line, he reloaded his firearm.
My guess is (based upon the location of the filming dashcam in the patrol car) he then circled around the back of the patrol car and approached the thug from behind and opened fire on him with the thug's back to him (while the thug was busy beating the downed deputy with his jammed AR pistol).

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Yes, you are. He did run away.
After Dep. Thoman prematurely ejected his mag, he realized he was defenseless against the attacker.
He backed/ran away and somewhere along the line, he reloaded his firearm.
My guess is (based upon the location of the filming dashcam in the patrol car) he then circled around the back of the patrol car and approached the thug from behind and opened fire on him with the thug's back to him (while the thug was busy beating the downed deputy with his jammed AR pistol).

When did he eject his mag? When the perp was in front of the sedan or when the perp attacked his partner physically? If he ejected his mag after the physical attack then ok for that run away moment but why didn't he see the perp coming when the perp was hobbling around in a long circular motion. Was the second deputy (not the one who was shot) just hiding behind the vehicle and not even looking at the perp? That's what I don't understand at all.

 

[sobo]

When did he eject his mag? When the perp was in front of the sedan or when the perp attacked his partner physically?

From my OP:

4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

Advance the video slowly (or use pause/play repeatedly) starting just before the 7:04 mark. You will clearly see the mag drop out of the gun and the slide is not locked back. Also, pay particular attention to Dep. Thoman's facial expression as he realizes what he just did.

If he ejected his mag after the physical attack then ok for that run away moment but why didn't he see the perp coming when the perp was hobbling around in a long circular motion. Was the second deputy (not the one who was shot) just hiding behind the vehicle and not even looking at the perp? That's what I don't understand at all.

It would seem that both deputies completely lost situational awareness in the incident. I am flummoxed myself as to how they were both looking in the opposite direction of the threat and allowed this creep to come up behind them both completely by surprise.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From my OP:

4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

Advance the video slowly (or use pause/play repeatedly) starting just before the 7:04 mark. You will clearly see the mag drop out of the gun and the slide is not locked back. Also, pay particular attention to Dep. Thoman's facial expression as he realizes what he just did.

It would seem that both deputies completely lost situational awareness in the incident. I am flummoxed myself as to how they were both looking in the opposite direction of the threat and allowed this creep to come up behind them both completely by surprise.

Ahh I see that point in time now thx. I also see at the 6:59 mark u can clearly see that dep Thoman knows the perp is on the other side of the white sheriffs vehicle while his partner (potters the one who got shot) is shooting in the other direction at the car.

again I understand why potters lost track of the perp due to being shot. But Thoman? Maybe he was just extremely green? His partner is shot and shooting in the wrong direction and he says NOTHING as the perp sneaks around behind his partner. And he doesn't cover his partner. At the 7:02mark it looks very clear to me that Thoman is using his partners body as cover. Watch for yourself to see if you agree. Then he ejects his mag as the guy is beating on his partner. Holy smokes.

another thought I had is maybe dep Thoman was so rattled (and thus lost his mag) because his partner was in the line of fire from his gun to the perp. That never should have happened, maybe if he was less worried about backing away and more worried about covering his partner or at least warning him the perp was coming up behind him. Just looks really bad from my point of view on that deputy. He knew the perp was sneaking around behind but instead of covering his partner and dropping the guy he moves away, then lost his mag, then ran away again to reload. He could have covered his partner because he knew the guy was coming around behind the sheriffs rig.

glad it turned out ok but as someone else said above they are darned lucky.

 

[Alexx1401]

From my OP:

4. 7:04 - After Dep. Potters goes down, Dep. Thoman appears to accidentally eject his mag (the slide is not locked back) while engaging the shooter and is left defenseless (operator error).

Advance the video slowly (or use pause/play repeatedly) starting just before the 7:04 mark. You will clearly see the mag drop out of the gun and the slide is not locked back. Also, pay particular attention to Dep. Thoman's facial expression as he realizes what he just did.

It would seem that both deputies completely lost situational awareness in the incident. I am flummoxed myself as to how they were both looking in the opposite direction of the threat and allowed this creep to come up behind them both completely by surprise.

Poor training and someone who just got way to complacent. Being in that job you have to learn to not get complacent like that. Never know when that routine stop turns into this.