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Firing pin punched through primer

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Crohnos01, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    I was at the range yesterday with my son (yes same one who found the bullet inside the 223 case in a different thread). He has a Savage M12 chambered in 22-250 and had used my equipment to load up some rounds. As I am sitting two lanes down from him testing some loads in my own 22-250 I just picked up ( a very sweet Cooper M22 varmiter, but that's for another thread another time). At any rate, as we are firing away, in between shots, I hear a distinctive "click" from my left where my son is sitting. I look over at him, he looks back at me and kind of give him the "WTF look". When he un-chambers the round, there is no impact on the primer from the firing pin... we talk about it for a minute and tell him to try it again. This time the round fires, but the pin makes a nice round hole all the way through the primer. Two more rounds fire ok, but the primer strikes seem heavy. Mind you this is after flawlessly firing about 80 rounds from the same lot of brass, primers, and powder mix.

    I don't know that much about Savage rifles, but did some Google searches and found some talk about head space issues causing similar results, but it seems weird that it just did this on the last few rounds. Everything in the bold and chamber seems to be tight. No evidence of high pressure firing on the cases...

    Thoughts?
     
    Sgt Nambu likes this.
  2. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    federal primers?
     
  3. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Because .22-250 headspaces off the case shoulder... there is a remote possibility that the rounds are shorter than spec, resulting in excess headspace. Normally there's not enough headspace, but it is possible to reduce the amount of headspace by stuffing the cases too deep into the sizing die.

    In both cases, this seems like odd possibilities. I would check fired cases vs the ones that gave you problems. Also were there any tightness closing the bolt handle at any point?

    The other thing I would check is see if perhaps the firing pin broke, it is possible that part of the firing pin cleaved off and doesn't have enough surface area to impact the primer with enough force, however does have enough force to pierce the cup.

    Using a piece of string tied in a loop around a sturdy object, you should be able to pull back the striker, and rotate it so the firing pin protrudes from the face of the bolt. You should measure how much it protrudes and check it for damage. If you don't find anything, get back to looking at the ammo.
     
  4. ageingstudent

    ageingstudent NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    And just a note about that headspacing on the shoulder...

    Another thing that can cause a short shoulder is repeated firings of reduced loads in .22-250. If you shoot reduced loads keep those cases separate and don't load them with full pressure loads.

    Reduced loads don't have sufficient pressure to expand the brass as designed and the shoulder tends to recede.
     
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  5. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so a little information I forgot to mention:
    The primers were Sellier & Bellot.... Not my usual flavor to load but I picked up some bricks during the last primer shortage cause that's all there was to buy.
    The other piece of the puzzle is that the brass was all new Partizan with this being the first time it had been loaded.

    I will see if we can check the firing pin as suggested... my gut tells me it's a bolt/firing pin issue.
     
  6. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I've never encountered S&B primers, however S&B has always shown itself to be of decent quality. PRVI brass is some of my favorite, so again I'm thinking this was not the issue, however I always buy it as loaded ammo (it's about the same cost to buy ammo instead of brass).

    Would be quite interested to know.
     
  7. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    We haven't disassembled the Savage bolt yet, but I fired the exact same recipe out of my 22-250; same brass, powder, and bullet....In fact, the primers in my rounds came out of the same lot as the one's my son used (yeah, Dad's reloading stock took a hit). I went back through my fired brass today and found no issues at all.... I am thinking even more strongly that the issue has to be with the bolt/firing pin on the Savage.
     
  8. P7id10T

    P7id10T Cedar Hills Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have pierced primers on overpressure loads. Can you post a picture of the case head?
     
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  9. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Check your firing pin protrusion
     
  10. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    As requested, here is a photo of the three cases that ended up with punched primers. I don't see any sign of over pressurization myself.

    We took the bolt apart and it was pretty gunky, but the spring and firing pin were intact. We test fired a few cases with just primers in them including a few with spent primers, but no other problems with punched through primers.... I am completely befuddled. :confused:

    cases with primer punch.jpg
     
  11. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    o_OI have a friend w/a 1990s Savage 270. no problems! I'm hoping this was a freak combination of events that led to this, I have not seen primers punched-out like that w/no high pressure signs on the primer...very puzzling! o_O
     
  12. Fltche1

    Fltche1 New Member

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    I am the proud owner of the savage in question. After having disassembled the bolt, my inspection findings were that there was no damage to the firing pin, (Not sharp and pointed/still had a nice round tip.) the spring was not broken, and my firing pin protrusion was about .040-.045". From what I have read .035 to .050" is desired (will try to confirm this with savage). I will be putting a phone call in to savage today and see what they say about all this.
     
  13. Fltche1

    Fltche1 New Member

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    I just got off the phone with Savage. They had no clue for diagnosis over the phone. They want me to send the rifle in with the cases. I think that throwing some more rounds might be in order to see if my problem persists after cleaning the bolt and the rest of the rifle. At this point besides checking the headspace... I have no clue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  14. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Sounds like a couple of weak/brittle primers.
     
  15. Fltche1

    Fltche1 New Member

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    It would be interesting to load up the same load with a different brand of primers and see if they puncture, in addition to firing more of the same brand primers with the same load. I still have another 5 rounds that I loaded that I haven't shot yet. I don't attribute this to the brand of primer and quality of product, (not yet anyways... If the next 5 do the same and a different brand of primer does not I might change my opinion.) so it will be interesting to see.
     
  16. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    I would think that too, except for the fact that all three instances of the pierced primers was on the same load combination, (39 gn of H380). 3 of the 5 rounds fired had pierced primers. 70 or so other lower grain loads did not experience the issue. Statistically, the chances of of all three primers faulting due to weak/faulty construction in only that load combination is pretty remote. This would typically lead me back to a pressure issue, but there are no visable signs of over pressurization. Due to the first round not firing and the firing pin not striking the primer, I am still leaning towards an issue with the bolt.... assuming that the guy pulling the accu-trigger engaged the blade safety of the trigger when he was firing :p
     
    erudne likes this.
  17. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Looks like defective primers to me, assuming you've checked the firing pin with a magnifying glass.

    I saw those S&B primers at Cabelas, I was tempted because they are way cheaper than the usual brands, but I finally said no. Primers are a very small percentage of reloading cost, and changed primers means re-checking your loads...
     
  18. Fltche1

    Fltche1 New Member

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    I will freely admit that I could have been at fault on the trigger pull for the round that had no primer strike since that is the first accutrigger I have ever owned (but not my first Savage). Given that the 55gr Hornady V-Max and 39 grains of H380 gave me the best accuracy of all the loads I tested I would certainly be willing to retest it with different primers.
     
  19. ageingstudent

    ageingstudent NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    You would think there would be some cratering and the primers would be flattened and have some burn marks with enough pressure to punch a hole like that. It almost looks drilled out. My Axis with the crappy trigger has never done that yet and I shoot some loads similar to yours. Haven't tried S&B in large rifle yet, but I like their small pistol for 38.
     
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  20. Crohnos01

    Crohnos01 Washington Well-Known Member

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    Lol, yeah, it's pretty as a picture, nice round hole perfectly punched.... hey fletche1, you sure whoever had that rifle beforehand didn't replace the firing pin with a drill bit ?:eek: