Fentanyl - the next nightmare drug

[Stomper]

didnt they do that in the phillippines

Those are summary on the spot executions... good way to get rid of rivals, someone you just don't like, or your daughter's D-knot boyfriend....

 

[Misteramax]

Reading this thread and living in Lebanon, I have a few thoughts I can't help but get off my chest.

It's easy to talk about the ethics of regulating morality. Though it's not against the law to be a loser, once you're one and a new found crackhead, have fun fighting the urge to take things that don't belong to you. Go around a neighborhood you don't belong in and not be welcome. Guess I lived in Lebanon too long...as I very much hate most of the people I have met here.

Sure, call me an a@@hole. Jaded. Whatever you like. The fact is bad behavior becomes a problem when people can't leave me or my property alone. That...is a natural law. You vs me. So my truck, house, property, neighborhoods property, all come before any feelings whatsoever regarding why or how a person became an addict. Don't care.

 

[Stomper]

Don't give two rubs, either. I'm all outta "compassion" these days. It's too bad, I used to actually be a pretty nice guy.

 

[No_Regerts]

So I had a thought while I was in the shower (where I often do my best thinking)

Much of the argument is that drug users are "scum" "welfare dirtbags" or some such or that using drugs is some sort of moral failing or they are simply weak people.

Are people who drink scum? Do they have a moral failing? More people die from alcohol use than any illegal drug. (and alcohol is a drug of course) Alcohol is by far one of the most addictive drugs used in the US and it is the only one that you can die from the withdrawals. How about smokers? Are they scum? Tobacco killis a magnitude more people than all illegal drugs combined. What makes them different? Well, a law. Someone wrote on paper that these were OK but the others were not.

Opium, Heroin, Cocaine, and even pot for that matter all used to not only be legal but sold in countless goods and concoctions. Were the people who used them then scum? Or did they only become scum when a group of guys got together and wrote it on some paper that it was wrong to use them?

Much of the attitude towards drug users is due to the fact that they are defacto criminals by the act of consuming a drug.

Most people, somewhere around 97%, can use a drug and not become addicted. The 3% that become addicts (which includes alcoholics who have the same predisposition due to brain chemistry) will likely be addicts no matter what the law says.


My argument is not for a "drug utopia" Its for taking the money out of the drug trade and ending the drug war. I dont want drugs in my town anymore than the next guy but I would much rather have safe, regulated drugs bought at a corner store than stuff that is killing people run by cartels and gangs that users had to steal to pay for.

Drugs are not going away, No "war" will make a dent in the supply as long as there is money to be made. Much better to take the money out of it, regulate and control it.

I may have a weird view on this due to my two jobs. I'm a full time LEO and I work at a bar part time. At the bar, I see many of the same people come in and enjoy some beverages and go home. As an LEO, I see drug addicts on the brink of death and/or covered in sores and abscesses. I couldn't tell you whether drugs are more addictive than booze, but I see far more functioning people who drink than those who use synthetic drugs. I do agree that organic substances may not be real addictive though.

 

[IronMonster]

I may have a weird view on this due to my two jobs. I'm a full time LEO and I work at a bar part time. At the bar, I see many of the same people come in and enjoy some beverages and go home. As an LEO, I see drug addicts on the brink of death and/or covered in sores and abscesses. I couldn't tell you whether drugs are more addictive than booze, but I see far more functioning people who drink than those who use synthetic drugs. I do agree that organic substances may not be real addictive though.

I would guess when I worked at the treatment center that out of every 4 people that came to treatment three of them where for alcohol.
As law enforcement I can see how what you encounter is one sided. If you are interacting with someone its for a reason and you are likely to see the worst of the worst. And I am not trying to argue that there is such a thing as a good drug addict. A person addicted to drugs is going to be a drag on society no matter what. They are going to be a burden no matter what. I think the goal should be to minimize that burden in a controlled way and I think decriminalization is the path to do that. Take the money out of it and the majority of the crime just vanishes. Will there be problems? Of course.

Of course its just talk, The US will not go back on 50 years of drug policy overnight. I honestly expect though that 50 years from now the "war on drugs" will seem just as ridiculous as prohibition does to us.

 

[coastal steelheader]

Sure, call me an a@@hole. Jaded. Whatever you like. The fact is bad behavior becomes a problem when people can't leave me or my property alone. That...is a natural law. You vs me. So my truck, house, property, neighborhoods property, all come before any feelings whatsoever regarding why or how a person became an addict. Don't care.

I'm in the same boat, I've escorted three people off my property in the last two months. A week ago my neighbor had to threaten to knock one of these zombies into the cheap seats to get him off his back deck. It's only a matter of time before someone in my neighborhood gets fed up and starts shooting, and I won't blame them one bit when it happens.

 

[Camelfilter]

So I had a thought while I was in the shower (where I often do my best thinking)

Much of the argument is that drug users are "scum" "welfare dirtbags" or some such or that using drugs is some sort of moral failing or they are simply weak people.

Are people who drink scum? Do they have a moral failing? More people die from alcohol use than any illegal drug. (and alcohol is a drug of course) Alcohol is by far one of the most addictive drugs used in the US and it is the only one that you can die from the withdrawals. How about smokers? Are they scum? Tobacco killis a magnitude more people than all illegal drugs combined. What makes them different? Well, a law. Someone wrote on paper that these were OK but the others were not.

Opium, Heroin, Cocaine, and even pot for that matter all used to not only be legal but sold in countless goods and concoctions. Were the people who used them then scum? Or did they only become scum when a group of guys got together and wrote it on some paper that it was wrong to use them?

Much of the attitude towards drug users is due to the fact that they are defacto criminals by the act of consuming a drug.

Most people, somewhere around 97%, can use a drug and not become addicted. The 3% that become addicts (which includes alcoholics who have the same predisposition due to brain chemistry) will likely be addicts no matter what the law says.


My argument is not for a "drug utopia" Its for taking the money out of the drug trade and ending the drug war. I dont want drugs in my town anymore than the next guy but I would much rather have safe, regulated drugs bought at a corner store than stuff that is killing people run by cartels and gangs that users had to steal to pay for.

Drugs are not going away, No "war" will make a dent in the supply as long as there is money to be made. Much better to take the money out of it, regulate and control it.

I hear what your saying, but disagree is all.

A whole bunch of the illegal drugs today are highly addictive. As in it may only take a person one try to become addicted.

To top that off, drug users try out "new things" to give them that high. Hence they crush slow acting (illegally obtained) prescribed meds for injection, or inhaling.

 

[Mygrainman]

Make it all legal in a despensory where they can be monitored.. but make em sign a waver relinquishing all voting and driving rights. And require them to be on birth control or at least make it easily accessible as long as they choose to use. Plus drug test all people seeking government assistance(should be doing this anyway) and unless taking for a legit medical reason... denied.

Make Suboxon easily available to anybody that wants it. It doesn't give off a high like other opiates, can't OD, and it blocks pain receptors making the use of other opiates futile while it's in their system. As of now suboxon is way more expensive and hard to get for addicts, so they opt for methadone clinics, or keep using.
The government pays hundreds per day per person that has to take a medical transport to the Methadone clinic because there are no clinics in rural areas, but there is no other options for them. If you do the math($100+ per day transport and the $500 monthly clinic fee) it costs more per year to keep those people in a methadone clinic than most taxpayers anual income. That's a huge waste of tax dollars, that could be much better spent. They could easily fund a suboxone delivery service out of one of those trucks like they use for mobile blood donations. "Deals on wheels". Literally saving millions of dollars. Another option that would actually be cheaper in the long run, and more effective, is to send them all to an extended inpatient program.


Meth is a hard one though... I have no patience for it. My only thought is to send all the tweekers to a reservation. IF they want to waste their lives on that shizz, that's their prerogative just keep them away from me. they can earn their way on the reservation. Call it Tweekerville, or Methachussets, Or Anphetaminnisota. They do work hard if you can keep em focused, and they don't eat much. Put them to work assembling Ikea furniture or something. Give them one meth, a bologna sandwich and a pepsi for every Askvol, or Kullen they assemble. More for a Nordli or Hemnes. (Yes I just watched Deadpool). Or send them a pile of broken bicycles and a cresant wrench and they can turn it into good working bikes to give to the poor.
Seriously though... My neighbor was a Sheriff and dealt with drug addicts, and the meyhem they caused on a daily basis. He was all for fully legalization because it would take the profit away from the cartels, and drug dealers...the money spent for the un-winnable war on drugs could be much better spent treating addiction... or here's a thought... fixing and maintaining our infrastructure. Also the violence stirred up from the drug trade(turf wars etc.) would be vastly minimized... a big win for pro gun.
Just as violence isn't going to go away by taking guns... Addiction isn't going to go away by taking away the drugs. Both are social, and psychological issues that need to be handled at the source. Fighting the symptoms of an epidemic is both expensive and futile.

 

[partsed]

LOL, I could tell that with the IKEA references you dropped....

 

[CoastRange57]

The whole Fentanyl thing is going to lead to increase pressure on EMS services as always. My son is a paramedic and with this Chinese Fentanyl that is coming it, the crack heads are mixing up these speed balls. Fentanyl and heroin is the choice right now. Try and get that ultimate high right between the barbituate downer heroin and the upper Fentanyl.

He says that when they do these and then they f up the dosage, they never know what way the crack head went to far with. Too much Fentanyl or too much horse?? So he does a best guess and tries Versed (sp ??) to counter act the Fentanyl. That wipes out the Fentanyl and then the crack head goes into heroin overdose. So he hits them with Narcan and that puts them back on the Fentanyl overdose. In order to manage it they have to hit them with paralytics, intubate them and head for the hospital and let them figure it out.

 

[CoastRange57]

Those are summary on the spot executions... good way to get rid of rivals, someone you just don't like, or your daughter's D-knot boyfriend....

 

[Mygrainman]

The whole Fentanyl thing is going to lead to increase pressure on EMS services as always. My son is a paramedic and with this Chinese Fentanyl that is coming it, the crack heads are mixing up these speed balls. Fentanyl and heroin is the choice right now. Try and get that ultimate high right between the barbituate downer heroin and the upper Fentanyl.

He says that when they do these and then they f up the dosage, they never know what way the crack head went to far with. Too much Fentanyl or too much horse?? So he does a best guess and tries Versed (sp ??) to counter act the Fentanyl. That wipes out the Fentanyl and then the crack head goes into heroin overdose. So he hits them with Narcan and that puts them back on the Fentanyl overdose. In order to manage it they have to hit them with paralytics, intubate them and head for the hospital and let them figure it out.

Fentanyl and heroin are both opiates. both should be wiped out with narcan. they mix with crack or coke or crank to get a speedball.

 

[Misteramax]

The whole Fentanyl thing is going to lead to increase pressure on EMS services as always. My son is a paramedic and with this Chinese Fentanyl that is coming it, the crack heads are mixing up these speed balls. Fentanyl and heroin is the choice right now. Try and get that ultimate high right between the barbituate downer heroin and the upper Fentanyl.

He says that when they do these and then they f up the dosage, they never know what way the crack head went to far with. Too much Fentanyl or too much horse?? So he does a best guess and tries Versed (sp ??) to counter act the Fentanyl. That wipes out the Fentanyl and then the crack head goes into heroin overdose. So he hits them with Narcan and that puts them back on the Fentanyl overdose. In order to manage it they have to hit them with paralytics, intubate them and head for the hospital and let them figure it out.

Fish and game...I'm telling ya. If we also tag the known crackheads then your son can just skip the people struggling in the gene pool.

 

[CoastRange57]

Yeah, that is what is was. We were well into some Pendelton when we were talking about it and his 30 year old brain works at lot better than my 59 year old one.

Never saw much of that back in my EMT days and had about zero training on overdoses.

 

[CoastRange57]

Fish and game...I'm telling ya. If we also tag the known crackheads then your son can just skip the people struggling in the gene pool.

The general idea. One of those overdoses takes 3 paramedics and 3 firefighters to handle it and at least an hour or more, plus all the bullsh*t paper work. For the same dude who they will roll on again later in the week for the same thing.

 

[Mygrainman]

I was watching a special on tv, and they show heroin dealers purposefully add extra fentanyl to cause an OD... that way he'll get more business for having "the good stuff" ...another good reason to legalize and put it in a despensory... At least they will know exactly what they are getting.

 

[Mygrainman]

Yeah, that is what is was. We were well into some Pendelton when we were talking about it and his 30 year old brain works at lot better than my 59 year old one.

Never saw much of that back in my EMT days and had about zero training on overdoses.

your brain is probably fine, retaining mostly valuable information ... I just watch too much discovery channel. My brain is full of useless facts and movie lines, leaving little room for useful info.

 

[RicInOR]

My solution - that won't get attempted - may have seen this on The Wire -

flood the area with cheap pot.

Not $80 pot **

$8

And not stems/sticks either.

Drive the price of a high, so low the other street pharmaceuticals can't compete. ***


I have talked to LEOs who know the issue with Pot addiction - it is real. But when I asked, was that any worse than drunks - got real quiet in the conversation.



Anyway, last I had seen anything, beer sales were down in Colorado since they allowed pot. Will beer recover? Long hot summer is coming and beer is refreshing. And "legal" pot ain't cheap.




** go to a recreational dispensary - how much do you get for $20 / 40 / 80 / 100?
I am not a user, but have been told in the Tacoma/Seattle area $80 is typical how much people spend -
those are people who goto a dispensary, not street dealers.


*** yes, I just advocated for government interfering with a market to artificially cause a change in behaviour - completely anti-libertarian of me, I know.

 

[clearconscience]

4 dead, dozens hospitalized in massive overdose, Georgia authorities say 4 dead, dozens hospitalized in massive overdose, Georgia authorities say

 

[clearconscience]

As a father I can't go there with you.

As a father I have to go there.