Echo Trigger - Full Autoishy Goodnes?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by 45 for me, Jun 5, 2016.

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  1. 45 for me

    45 for me
    Oregon
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    The Fostech Echo Trigger looks like it may be worth a try...



    The Tac-con trigger seems hard to master, and the Franklin Armory Binary trigger suffers from hammer follow. This seems to fix both problems. They aren't out yet, but I want to see the reviews when they start shipping. If they are like the video, I am getting one.

    I have a Seekins AR with a 14.7 barrel and a huge comp pinned on. With an eotech sight, that will be a little rock n roll blow torch...
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  2. 2A2Dend

    2A2Dend
    82-88, U.S. Army
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    What was the status on the trigger for Washington state? I believe they were banned?
     
  3. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs
    South Willamette Valley Oregon
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    Would this be legal in either Washington or Oregon???

    $479 sure is an expensive trigger.

    Advance deposit is $200, and they are quoting a 6 month lead time to fill an order placed now.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  4. 2A2Dend

    2A2Dend
    82-88, U.S. Army
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  5. rdb241

    rdb241
    Puyallup Washington
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    They were not banned. I called the company and they told me that they're legal department has not made a decision about Washington based on Washington's law of one squeeze per one round. They can not determine whether the release of the trigger causing the firearm to fire is considered a "squeeze".
     
  6. 2A2Dend

    2A2Dend
    82-88, U.S. Army
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    It won't happen.
    I am being optimistic.
     
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  7. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs
    South Willamette Valley Oregon
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    Not optimistic here in Oregon either:

    Oregon Revised Statutes
    166.210 (6)


    "Machine gun means a weapon of any description by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, which is designed or modified to allow two or more shots to be fired by a single pressure on the trigger device."

    I don't think that one has to apply pressure to let off a trigger pull.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  8. 2A2Dend

    2A2Dend
    82-88, U.S. Army
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    Technicalities. The Echo Trigger is not a full auto part as intended in a machine gun. I know you know the concept, but a machine gun (full auto) fires until you let off on the trigger. The Echo trigger fires once when pulled, once again on release. All in one motion. Rinse, repeat.

    As previously, Fostech declined selling in Washington due to BS reasons. Basically, they don't want to fight the decision state by state. This new "Echo" trigger will inevitably not see the light of day.

    [dream on] [/dream off]
     
  9. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs
    South Willamette Valley Oregon
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    All that matters is how state law defines a machine gun. At least here in Oregon, it would seem that it would turn a gun into a machine gun, according to what the legal definition of a machine gun is in Oregon's statutes.
     
  10. 45 for me

    45 for me
    Oregon
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    I haven't seen a legal precedent or official opinion issued in Oregon. Franklin Armory voluntarily limited sales in Oregon. That doesn't make them officially illegal (yet). Fostech is not limiting pre sales as far as I can tell. I did send them an email asking if they planned to limit sales in any states. I'll post the response here if I get one.

    Can anybody give a link to a legal opinion issued by the state addressing either of these triggers?
     
  11. biggie24420

    biggie24420
    Beaverton Oregon
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    When I found out about these trigger, I got really excited. Then I posted a thread on it here and I did some basic research (should have done it before it posted a thread lol) and very quickly my dreams were shattered.
    Do I have my ways of obtaining one? is a frog's a$$ watertight? lol

    But it's not worth me running into some ding dong cop/agent and get arrested for manufacturing a machine gun or some BS in those lines.

    I would however meet half way and pay a stupid tax stamp to drop one of those triggers in... but then again maybe I'll just bump fire :D

    On my M10 AK, I can shoulder bump it like a mofo lol.... I can't wait for an opinion letter from the ATF telling us it's a no no to bump fire.
     
  12. 45 for me

    45 for me
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    Here is the response from Fostech to my question "Will the echo triggers be available in all states? Are you limiting pre-orders? I live in Oregon and Franklin armory will not sell the
    binary trigger because of state machine gun definitions"

     
  13. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs
    South Willamette Valley Oregon
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    So in other words, they are happy to earn interest on your $200 while they figure out if you can buy the trigger from them or not.

    Does not sound like they have even bothered to read Oregon's law at this point, as its definition is per pressure of a trigger, not per function.
     
  14. 45 for me

    45 for me
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    I think you can argue, and lawyers love to, that with this trigger a single pressure on the trigger device gives you one shot. Release that pressure and you get one shot. You will probably lose the argument, but armed (no pun intended) with a BATFE letter stating it is not a machine gun, maybe you win.

    Either way, someone is going to have to go to court to fight it.
     
  15. jbett98

    jbett98
    NW Oregon
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    It would be cheaper in the long run to just buy a legal tax stamped full auto Mac 11 and leave the lawyer bill for someone else to pay.
     
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  16. JustShoot

    JustShoot
    Oregon . Hillsborito area
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    Screw the Lawyers .

    They should attempt to sell this TG to anyone that wants it, I support Fostech 100% . This new TG is not even out for retail yet . Fight group pessimism on this site and reject expectations of the worst and defeatism, before things are even started .
    It's great that Fostech or anyone else is pushing there design interpretation of what a Trigger Group should be and funrtion . Not limiting themselves to what the 2+2=5 crowd wants to believe for all the rest of us . Exercising Free Will with just simple artistic interpretation of design, is what it's all about here .

    .
     
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  17. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor
    Oregon City, Oregon
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    Jerry Miculek should be banned as he is a human machine gun...:)

    I am thinking of getting one of these and mating it to an HBAR upper with bipod to give me an improvised SAW capability in preparation for Red Dawn 1 or 2. Or just to have fun. :)
     
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  18. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs
    South Willamette Valley Oregon
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    Legality aside, the more I think about this trigger, the more I doubt its effectiveness. I say that because in my opinion, it pretty much forces you to take at least two shots at a time. Yes, you could press back and fire one shot and hold the trigger there. But that would then make for a most unnatural trigger activation for the 2nd shot.

    And would it not also be rather unsafe, to have to hold the trigger back like that, with any slip then resulting in a round being fired?

    So while I see this trigger offering some advantages, I also see if offering some disadvantages too. It seems like a two edged sword to me.

    .
     
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  19. rdb241

    rdb241
    Puyallup Washington
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    I like the idea of the double tap. The military has three round burst for a reason. I taught myself years ago to double tap so fast t sounds like full auto. So one squeeze and release doubles your chance of hitting the target.
     
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  20. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace
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    There is no group of humans that are descending faster on my scale of puke-sacks than the attorneys. I think they are now #11 and declining on a scale of 1 to 10.

    If they can add a copy of a BATFE issued opinion that they are not auto parts, then there ya go. Without the letter who wants to be the test case?
     
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