Do I need 20moa base?

[Koda]

I should know this but need some confirmation before spending the money. Im thinking of swapping my 50mm for my 44mm objective and changing my scope mount from a pic rail and rings to a simpler cleaner looking ringmount set, will lower the scope to the bore and shave a few precious ounces. Its a hunting rifle, but Im enjoying occasionally ringing long range steel and like to learn to be able to target shoot steel out to 1000yds. The ringmounts I want are from Leupold but they only make those in 0moa. I can buy Talley ringmounts that are 20moa (but I like the Leupold mounts better... but...).
Question:
If I read my scope specifications correct, plus my handloads ballistics correct I should have more than enough elevation in the scope turret to dial for 1000yds?

Hotlinks included below for you all to verify.


handload: .257 cal, G7: .262, MV: 3111fps. Ballistic calculator data shows 23moa at 1000yds.
Scope: Leupold VX6 3x18, advertised "elevation dial travel limit" shows 38moa but what I think should be clear to me is that half the range or total range?

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[lucusloc]

The total range of the scope is 75mm

Elevation Adjustment Range (MOA)	75

So you should be "fine" with a 0 MOA mount.

The thing to remember is that many scopes start having "drift" or "slop" or whatever else people call it out towards the end of their range. 20 MOA down from center is not all that bad, but if you want to keep your scope in the sweet spot by the middle of the adjustment range then a 20MOA mount would be advisable. But! that will mean you will have those problems when you move back close in and need to dial the scope back up. Since you say this is also a hunting rifle, and since I assume that does not mean big horn sheep or some other long range hunt, you probably want to keep things tuned for that use.

Or you could ask around and see if the Leupold behaves itself when you are dialing back and forth 20MOA or more on a regular basis. I have not had any issues with my longer range scopes dialing 10MOA, but I have not gotten into the really long range stuff yet, so I cannot comment past that. I would expect a brand with that reputation to not have any issue with what you are asking of it, but that may not be good enough at 1k yards.

 

[Koda]

Or you could ask around and see if the Leupold behaves itself when you are dialing back and forth 20MOA or more on a regular basis.

Zero issues exercising the dial, farthest ive hit right now is 700yds. I always assumed after around 700yds one needed a 20moa base but I guess not.
The total range is clear but "travel limit" is not clear if they mean "from center".
Appreciate the confirmation. The Leupold rings are much nicer than the Talley...

 

[MTpockets]

You wouldn't have to dial in the elevation.
Max Magnification

Even with the limited information that the reticle provides, you can still use it to approximate a range and establish hold overs when needed.


Edit to add: You could also use a ~25/300 yard zero to reduce the elevation to ~20 MOA and limit adjustment runout @ 1000 yards.

 

[TTSX]

I wouldn't use 20 moa if I didn't have to. I put one on my Remington 700 in 7 mag and my zero went from 200 to about 400 instantly. With that 400 yard zero, I'm still well within my field of view at 1k with no adjustments. I only have to adjust at 1300 or so and it's something like 18 moa (rough guess, don't have my data on hand) of adjustment. I don't see a need for a fancy rail, especially on a hunting rifle. Oh, and I needed to swap out my rings and adjust my cheek weld because of the new angle in my dangle.

 

[Koda]

You wouldn't have to dial in the elevation.
Max Magnification
View attachment 2027514
Even with the limited information that the reticle provides, you can still use it to approximate a range and establish hold overs when needed.
View attachment 2027515

Edit to add: You could also use a ~25/300 yard zero to reduce the elevation to ~20 MOA and limit adjustment runout @ 1000 yards.

Seems to me so much easier to just laser the target and adjust the dial. Im not a true long range shooter just enjoying learning how to and becoming familiar with the basics of it. Im not certain if I can hit 1000yds but think it will be a fun goal to learn. Im at 700yds with the rifle now and hoping this summer to go a few more times. As primarily a hunting rifle it will be zeroed at 100yds, but with the dial I can also set it at the rifles MBPR zero for more open country areas. Very versatile scope.

 

[TTSX]

Seems to me so much easier to just laser the target and adjust the dial. Im not a true long range shooter just enjoying learning how to and becoming familiar with the basics of it. Im not certain if I can hit 1000yds but think it will be a fun goal to learn. Im at 700yds with the rifle now and hoping this summer to go a few more times.

If you can get someone with a good spotting scope to shoot with you, they can walk you into that 1000 yard target no problem. Doing it solo without a spotter is a much more difficult task

 

[Koda]

I wouldn't use 20 moa if I didn't have to.

Thats my take, I also hear its better on the scope optically to keep it optically centered. After wrapping my head around the math and Lucuslocs explaination above I'm glad I don't need a 20moa mount though I don't think it would hurt a Leupold if I had to.

Not in a rush for this but next need to find the right ring heights. Not certain but think medium is what I need for a 44mm objective with a sendero barrel.

BackCountry Remington 700 2-pc 30mm Medium Matte

Every model in the BackCountry™ series is constructed with 7075-T6 aluminum, making them some of our lightest and most rugged mounts yet. These BackCountry ringmounts attach directly to a Remington 700 and will accept any riflescope with a 30mm maintube.

www.leupold.com

 

[TTSX]

Thats my take, I also hear its better on the scope optically to keep it optically centered. After wrapping my head around the math and Lucuslocs explaination above I'm glad I don't need a 20moa mount though I don't think it would hurt a Leupold if I had to.

Not in a rush for this but next need to find the right ring heights. Not certain but think medium is what I need for a 44mm objective with a sendero barrel.

BackCountry Remington 700 2-pc 30mm Medium Matte

Every model in the BackCountry™ series is constructed with 7075-T6 aluminum, making them some of our lightest and most rugged mounts yet. These BackCountry ringmounts attach directly to a Remington 700 and will accept any riflescope with a 30mm maintube.

www.leupold.com

I've found that whatever Leupold recommends for a height, I need to drop it one size down. For example, of they say medium, I need a low. If they say extra high, I need high. That's for Leupold scopes with Leupold bases and Leupold rings. Unless you have really low cheek bones or like a 3/8" gap between your barrel and objective lens

 

[Koda]

If you can get someone with a good spotting scope to shoot with you, they can walk you into that 1000 yard target no problem. Doing it solo without a spotter is a much more difficult task

My shooting friends are hit and miss and sometimes I go alone, but have one buddy who's also wanting to practice out to 1000yds. Started practicing this finally last summer and was surprised how easy and accurate the ballistic apps were, it wasn't until I reached out far enough the wind started to really effect the impact that I needed a spotter. I was consistently hitting out to 500yds but after that if there was even a slight breeze I started to miss more and would walk my way in(to the wind).

 

[Koda]

I've found that whatever Leupold recommends for a height, I need to drop it one size down. For example, of they say medium, I need a low. If they say extra high, I need high. That's for Leupold scopes with Leupold bases and Leupold rings. Unless you have really low cheek bones or like a 3/8" gap between your barrel and objective lens

Ive never had any luck with any scope mount company. Whatever I buy is either too tall or too low and I have to return it to buy the next size. All the mfgs guidelines never work for me, I think its a murphys law thing but i'll have to see if I can get lucky at least once this time.

 

[Nosferatu]

No.

Learn to zoom in with your feet instead.

 

[TTSX]

No.

Learn to zoom in with your feet instead.

 

[Nosferatu]

View attachment 2027897

That's the spirit!

 

[Koda]

View attachment 2027897

Im going to need a 20moa base for that....

 

[Nosferatu]

Im going to need a 20moa base for that....

Please don't share where you mount it.

 

[ORhutner]

Ive never had any luck with any scope mount company. Whatever I buy is either too tall or too low and I have to return it to buy the next size. All the mfgs guidelines never work for me, I think its a murphys law thing but i'll have to see if I can get lucky at least once this time.

A simple way to get the exact height you want for your rings is to take your scope and stack something like penny's or another thin item underneath the scope until you reach the desired height. Then measure your stack and compare that measurement to the manufacturers measurements for the various ring height options.

 

[ORhutner]

I should know this but need some confirmation before spending the money. Im thinking of swapping my 50mm for my 44mm objective and changing my scope mount from a pic rail and rings to a simpler cleaner looking ringmount set, will lower the scope to the bore and shave a few precious ounces. Its a hunting rifle, but Im enjoying occasionally ringing long range steel and like to learn to be able to target shoot steel out to 1000yds. The ringmounts I want are from Leupold but they only make those in 0moa. I can buy Talley ringmounts that are 20moa (but I like the Leupold mounts better... but...).
Question:
If I read my scope specifications correct, plus my handloads ballistics correct I should have more than enough elevation in the scope turret to dial for 1000yds?

Hotlinks included below for you all to verify.


handload: .257 cal, G7: .262, MV: 3111fps. Ballistic calculator data shows 23moa at 1000yds.
Scope: Leupold VX6 3x18, advertised "elevation dial travel limit" shows 38moa but what I think should be clear to me is that half the range or total range?

Your scope has a total of 75 MOA of elevation adjustment range but the 38 MOA you reference is the usable travel limit of the elevation dial. Meaning if your zero were to fall at 50 MOA up from the bottom of the adjustment range you would only have 25 MOA of vertical adjustment left above your zero stop. I believe in the scenario I give, on that Leupold you would have 13 MOA of adjustment below your 50 MOA zero.

 

[foxmeadow]

I bought a used Savage FP10 from a guy who had done something I'd never heard of. He made his own 20 MOA (sorta) setup by using a shorter ring in front and then lapping the heck out of the offset ring arrangement until he had complete bearing surfaces parallel to negate torque on the scope tube. It looked a little weird if you inspected it carefully, but he said it worked well. The upper back edges of the rings were thinner than the front. The seller said this was how it could be done before 20 MOA bases were available. Old school Marine Scout Sniper School instructor..
It didn't matter to me because I was going to put a 30mm scope on it and his rings were 1". I installed a "normal" 20MOA base, put "normal" rings on and lapped it all.

 

[Koda]

Your scope has a total of 75 MOA of elevation adjustment range but the 38 MOA you reference is the usable travel limit of the elevation dial. Meaning if your zero were to fall at 50 MOA up from the bottom of the adjustment range you would only have 25 MOA of vertical adjustment left above your zero stop. I believe in the scenario I give, on that Leupold you would have 13 MOA of adjustment below your 50 MOA zero.

Thats actually a good point, but I dont think ive ever used up more than a few clicks (from optical center) to zero the rifle, but it certqinly takes away from the usuable elevation range.

Ill need to double check my ballistic estimation but should still have enough range especially with a 30mm tube.