Del-Ton AR15 Upper Problems

[Michael]

I have a brand new M4 upper from Del-Ton, and the bolt carrier group is VERY difficult to pull back, even when just working with the upper by itself (not mounted to a lower). When mounted to a lower, it took about 40 lbs of force to cycle the bolt back with the charging handle. I lubed up the bolt carrier group and cycled it a few dozen times, which reduced it to about 25 lbs of force (which still obviously seems too high), then tried cycling a cartridge through it. With the cartridge, the bolt was able to chamber it, but it was impossible to cycle the bolt back (it was effectively stuck in the forward position). I was able to remove the upper from the lower, and carefully pried the bolt back from underneath. The cartridge had severe abraision on one side, as though the bolt were off-center from the chamber.

I have tried emailing and calling Del-Ton, but no response so far (every extension I try just rings, and only the Operator extension seems to take voice mail).

Does anyone have any suggestions? This is my first AR, although I assembled my buddy's AR first (with an identical upper from Del-Ton) and it worked fine.

Thanks,
Michael

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[uscsoldier]

I've has super Customer Service with del-ton they might be at a gun show or something. how long has it been since you sent them and email? also cockatailer (a mod here) does lots of biz with them, send him a PM

 

[Michael]

It's only been about 5 hours since voice mail and email, but I have tried repeatedly calling them all morning without reaching a human. I wouldn't be in such a hurry, but I'm getting ready to head out of town and I would like to get this thing on its way back to them if that is the resolution.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[uscsoldier]

5hrs

It's only been about 5 hours since voice mail and email, but I have tried repeatedly calling them all morning without reaching a human. I wouldn't be in such a hurry, but I'm getting ready to head out of town and I would like to get this thing on its way back to them if that is the resolution.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Michael]

Still no word from them, so it's more than 5 hours now

I really want to get this thing working, my best friend's mom is dying of cancer, and one of the few things she enjoys is going out shooting. The idea was to build matching ARs and she could use mine when they go out shooting together. She doesn't have much time left, and I don't want to lose a week while I am out of town. She is really looking forward to shooting side by side with her son (and me too).

I PM'ed coctailer, hopefully he can help.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[coctailer]

I get mine from a distributor that puts the Shooters Package together.
I have heard great things about DelTon's customer service though.

Try calling early in the morning. They are in North Carolina.
5 hours ago, they were closed.

You won't get a human on the phone after 1:00PM PST.

 

[Michael]

Thanks, I will start calling very early tomorrow (I started calling at 7:30 Pacific time today). I used to live fairly close to their location, would have been nice to still be there now! I think I remember them from local gun shows.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Michael]

Just a follow-up -
I learned that Del-Ton is damn hard to get on the phone, but once you finally reach someone they are excellent at customer service. While my calls were all before their closing time, it seemed impossible to get a person on the phone unless calling very early in their day.

Laura in customer service helped me. She gave me a list of items to inspect, and I left her a message with the results. She emailed me a return shipping tag to ship the whole upper back (which was unfortunately after my trip so I lost that week). They rebuilt the upper, and it is now smooth as silk in its bolt operation (and hand-cycling rounds through it).

Unfortunately it just missed getting back here in time for our planned trip to the range, but we just substituted my SU-16. Unfortunately my friend's mom was too weak to shoot that day, so we just hung around with her all day and helped around her house. The doctor examined her and gave her a few weeks (and we planned another trip to see if we could catch her at a better time of the day to get her out to the range), but she had a heart attack and died a couple of days later. RIP Isabel. She'll be watching as I test out "our" AR15.

 

[uscsoldier]

I'm glad it worked out for you they are good people

 

[Michael]

One more follow-up, we finally made it out last week to shoot them, both ARs worked flawlessly for a couple hundred rounds each, with a variety of ammo types and magazines. After I adjusted the sights on mine, I decided to try to shoot a 3-round group at 50 yds to see how repeatable it was. This was bracing my arm on a bench but otherwise free-hand, and I'm sure I couldn't repeat it if I tried, but the 3 holes were all overlapping. I know, most guys hit more accurately at longer distances, but for an AR newbie with iron sights I was happy.

 

[eriknemily]

One more follow-up, we finally made it out last week to shoot them, both ARs worked flawlessly for a couple hundred rounds each, with a variety of ammo types and magazines. After I adjusted the sights on mine, I decided to try to shoot a 3-round group at 50 yds to see how repeatable it was. This was bracing my arm on a bench but otherwise free-hand, and I'm sure I couldn't repeat it if I tried, but the 3 holes were all overlapping. I know, most guys hit more accurately at longer distances, but for an AR newbie with iron sights I was happy.

Seems to me that's a respectable group with open sights. Not sure that I could do that

 

[Merle]

My honest advice, (which I'll certainly get flamed for) is don't buy Del-Ton to begin with. About the bottom of the barrel for AR's, right along with DPMS and Olympic Arms.

 

[eriknemily]

My honest advice, (which I'll certainly get flamed for) is don't buy Del-Ton to begin with. About the bottom of the barrel for AR's, right along with DPMS and Olympic Arms.

Is that based on personal experience, price differences, reviews? Just curious. Everybody has their reasoning for personal bias. I'm just curious because my ar is a bushy lower with a dpms upper. I've experienced not problems with mine. Of course I clean frequently...

 

[Andy]

My honest advice, (which I'll certainly get flamed for) is don't buy Del-Ton to begin with. About the bottom of the barrel for AR's, right along with DPMS and Olympic Arms.

I've got an Oly Ultramatch UM-1 and it's flawless. I don't understand why everyone badmouths them.

And I've heard nothing but good things about the Del-Ton's from coctailers buyers.

Can't speak for DPMS though.

 

[Merle]

Is that based on personal experience, price differences, reviews? Just curious. Everybody has their reasoning for personal bias. I'm just curious because my ar is a bushy lower with a dpms upper. I've experienced not problems with mine. Of course I clean frequently...

Inferior steel, .223 chambers that are marked 556 NATO, and my biggest beef with a lot of the cheaper AR brands is that they don't stake the screws in the gas key or do it so poorly they might as well not have. That alone can explode a rifle in your hands. If they don't care about their customers enough to take that extra little step when building a rifle, I'd walk, I mean run away. They may be good enough for a weekend range plinker but I wouldn't take one into battle and that is what the AR is, a battle rifle. For a few dollars more you can have a rifle much better. YMMV.

 

[eriknemily]

Inferior steel, .223 chambers that are marked 556 NATO, and my biggest beef with a lot of the cheaper AR brands is that they don't stake the screws in the gas key or do it so poorly they might as well not have. That alone can explode a rifle in your hands. If they don't care about their customers enough to take that extra little step when building a rifle, I'd walk, I mean run away. They may be good enough for a weekend range plinker but I wouldn't take one into battle and that is what the AR is, a battle rifle. For a few dollars more you can have a rifle much better. YMMV.

You seem to know your stuff. For the record, I am a weekend range plinker who would much prefer to never have to use any of my guns on people This is kind of hijacking the thread but what do you mean by staking the screws into the gas key? So even though my dpms upper is marked 5.56nato it's really only 223 that's been intentionally mismarked? My understanding is that the difference in the two rounds is in the case thickness. The external measurements are exactly the same correct?

 

[Merle]

You seem to know your stuff. For the record, I am a weekend range plinker who would much prefer to never have to use any of my guns on people This is kind of hijacking the thread but what do you mean by staking the screws into the gas key? So even though my dpms upper is marked 5.56nato it's really only 223 that's been intentionally mismarked? My understanding is that the difference in the two rounds is in the case thickness. The external measurements are exactly the same correct?

The thing with DPMS is that they are inconsistent. Some chambers may be 556, some may be 223. I guess its just the luck of the draw. You will probably never know until the day that you decide to shoot some military surplus 5.56 NATO 62gr bullets and have the primer blow out of the back of the bullet due to the bullet being too long for the 223 chamber. Here is a little article that explains it. <broken link removed>

Properly staked gas key, again, inconsistent with cheaper brand AR's. If it doesn't look like this, the screws could loosen and kaboom!

 

[Gunner3456]

The thing with DPMS is that they are inconsistent. Some chambers may be 556, some may be 223. I guess its just the luck of the draw. You will probably never know until the day that you decide to shoot some military surplus 5.56 NATO 62gr bullets and have the primer blow out of the back of the bullet due to the bullet being too long for the 223 chamber. Here is a little article that explains it. <broken link removed>

Properly staked gas key, again, inconsistent with cheaper brand AR's. If it doesn't look like this, the screws could loosen and kaboom!

When did they start putting primers in bullets?

 

[Merle]

When did they start putting primers in bullets?

I'm sorry, the case, the brass, the shell, whatever. You can call it chocolate pudding if you'd like but it still don't change the fact that DPMS and Del-ton is about the lowest quality you can get with AR's.

 

[Gunner3456]

I'm sorry, the case, the brass, the shell, whatever. You can call it chocolate pudding if you'd like but it still don't change the fact that DPMS and Del-ton is about the lowest quality you can get with AR's.

I don't believe you've had much experience (thousands of rounds) with Del-ton or DPMS, or bullets or primers or chocolate pudding either, obviously.