CZ 75B 9mm chamber question.

[jordanka16]

Tiregroup has become my new go to for most pistol calibers, it's accurate. very economical and it burns very clean. I never have any issues with pressure but I keep my loads a good deal under max.

My previous go to was unique or bullseye, I still use bullseye for .38, and those are both very fast powders so tiregroup was an easy transition.

 

[Tilos]

Titegroup worked well with Berry's 115 plated but I keep the charge right in the middle of min and max.
Now that I'm looking at the jar of HS-6 it has a load of 6.8gr with sierra 124 fmj and a COAL of 1.090, obviously thats a different bullet but the depth looks promising as a good powder.
I've been running 700x in 40S&W as it's a lower pressure but good lord it meters terrible for me so I have the charge just below what my target is and adjust the charge by adding powder to perfect weight. Takes an eternity to get rounds loaded but very consistent shot to shot.

So what powder measure are you using that won't drop consistently?
Throwing pistol charges with a measure setup for rifle(large spindle), will be inconsistent.
A pound of powder is 7000 grains, so 1000+ rounds at 6.8 gr, I don't see any economy in loading with any powder that's few bucks cheaper or less grains per round...I spill more than I have saved.

You mentioned in another post that you are loading for accuracy, don't take this wrong, and I'll probably get flamed here, but ammo is a small part of accuracy for a semi-auto, with a shooter's ability being another limiting factor of accuracy.
You only have to look at what guns/ammo Bullseye shooters use for accuracy from an auto.
Sizing the bullet to match the barrel is a way to increase the accuracy too.
I often buy .357-.358 diameter bullets for loading 38's and resize to them .355/.356/.357, by pushing them thru a Lee sizing die, for 9mm depending on which gun I'll be shooting them from.

That said, I've gotten the best handgun accuracy from revolvers.

 

[jordanka16]

You mentioned in another post that you are loading for accuracy, don't take this wrong, and I'll probably get flamed here, but ammo is a small part of accuracy for a semi-auto, with a shooter's ability being another limiting factor of accuracy.

A lot of the loading for accuracy for me with a fixed sight semi auto is getting it to shoot to point of aim.

 

[Tilos]

A lot of the loading for accuracy for me with a fixed sight semi auto is getting it to shoot to point of aim.

Yep, exactly...
Varying bullet weight, powder type/powder charge/overall length, all to get the point of impact on top of the front site shooting, with non-adjustable sites, is what I want.

But it's all an in-exact science, with a consistent grip being a big factor too.
I could never master the "aim here" to get a hit "there" shooting discipline method.
That's just me though,

 

[The Courier]

My powder flow came with the Lee set. Any flake powder or H335 is very difficult to meter correctly, I get variations as much as .4grs and to me thats unacceptable. When I say loading for accuracy I mean primarily velocity as very carefully loaded rounds have yielded variations no more than +/- 5fps with 9mm and 357sig according to my master chrony. But of course keeping the point of aim is something I strive for as well.

 

[jordanka16]

Wow, I use a Lee powder measure and h335 is one of the best measuring powders I use, I actually prefer it over some others that are slightly more accurate because of how it meters.

My trouble has always been with long stick powders.

 

[The Courier]

That's what everyone else experience seemed to be stick = bad/ ball = good. You can imagine my surprise when I went to load using 335, I'm going to try Varget when I can get some 1lb containers for under $25.

 

[jordanka16]

varget is good stuff but never metered well, I get great accuracy from BLC2, which meters well and it works great in a lot of other calibers too, it's great in .30-30 for cast loads.

 

[Tilos]

That's what everyone else experience seemed to be stick = bad/ ball = good. You can imagine my surprise when I went to load using 335, I'm going to try Varget when I can get some 1lb containers for under $25.

Lee makes a bunch of different powder measures, not sure which one you have, with some working better than others, read the reviews on most sites that sell them.

You might want to look into getting a different measure, rather than switching powders.
A new measure doesn't cost much more than a pound of powder.
I've had good luck with both the new Lee Auto Drum and the Lee Pro Auto-Disc on my progressives.
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For small amounts of powder I throw 10 drops into a big case and set my scale for 10x the load to check.
Like for 6.8 gr, I'll throw 10 into a big case and set the scale for 68 gr. and adjust the measure (change the disc, have the adjustable disc) based on the weight, then repeat, until it weighs 68.
This method is way (weigh ) easier to set the measure than chasing 0.1 gr. of one throw, and will work with any measure.
just sayin'

Edit: here's a thread about short chambered CZ's:
Need help finding a good bullet for short chamber CZ

 

[Certaindeaf]

So I've been trying to set an overall length for some 124gr fmj round nose and I am running into a problem, even at minimum seating depth the rounds will not pass the plunk test. The data from lee states that for a 124 fmj round nose using Titegroup minimum COAL is 1.150, so first I thought the bell on the case was to blame but I dropped several unloaded cases in and they cleared no problem. After browsing CZ forums and discussions it seems I'm not the only one with this issue, some where saying they have to set their length at 1.10 for proper function. What bugging me is I'm trying to make a nice happy medium that works nice in my Glock 19 and my CZ and going below listed safe depth makes me a little nervous.
I understand that Glock chambers and CZ vary greatly in design and allowable length will be different as well. The only conclusion I can come up with is set charge at minimum and keep dropping the length until they chamber, Can anybody shed some light on this subject?

CZ's generally have very short to nonexistent throats.
I've got a 9mm pistol or two that I'd like to have reamed.. I wonder if @Velzey has some.

 

[noylj]

One more time:
COL is not found in a manual.
COL is dependent on the bullet used and the gun it is used in and there is no way any manual can tell you what COL will work in your gun.
A minimum COL simply means that the data supplier will not guarantee the load will be below max if you shorten the COL beyond what they list. However, if you work up the load from the start load (or, even better, check several sources and use the lightest start load listed), you will have no problems.
>The only conclusion I can come up with is set charge at minimum and keep dropping the length until they chamber
You always set the start load at the START LOAD. Again, there is no MINIMUM load. You start with the start load. Next, work out your COL using a couple of inert dummy rounds with NO powder or primers.

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH "COL"
It is important to note that the SAAMI "COL" values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum 'Start Load.'"


Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Exactly. I like tossing some freaky stuff outa my 9's so need my chambers reamed.

 

[Velzey]

Throating reamers

 

[The Courier]

Work got cancelled tomorrow so I'm heading to the range in the AM. I have three powders to test all set at 1.1375 so I will follow up asap with targets and chrono data.

 

[maddog]

You know, of course, we'll all be waiting for a range report.

 

[The Courier]

Ok so good day at the range. here are the targets that were shot at 20 feet from a supported bench.

 

[noylj]

Love to see these at 20-25 yards.

 

[jordanka16]

Looks like the cz beat the snot out of the Glock, I knew there was a reason I decided to buy one of them.

It looks like tiregroup produced the best results, which is the same thing I've found in mine.

 

[The Courier]

So chrono data was as follows, Titegroup 3.6gr 3 string was 1,017 1,010 984. HS-6 at 6.3 grs was for a 3 string 1,115 1,135 1,099. 700x at 3.8 grs three shots 921, 908, 889.
So everything is looking good so far but here's where it get's interesting as the target shows I loaded some Sierra V-crowns 90gr. and at max charge which I did work up my final readings were at 1528, 1545, and 1601 fps... according to my Lee manual velocity should be around 1400fps. longer barrel of a CZ giving extra velocity maybe?

 

[The Courier]

Love to see these at 20-25 yards.

Yeah I never said I was a marksman, I definitely think the glock could have been better with a slightly modified trigger, the break feels really heavy and could be why the shots opened up so much more. I thought about shooting at the 20yrd line been then I realized others would see the targets and decided not to .