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Between Wikipedia and SilencerTalk forum, I pieced together this:

Countries that allow Suppressors without a permit:

Norway
France (for rimfire pistols)
Italy(? same as gun?)
Poland
New Zealand

Countries that allow Suppressors with a permit (not near as restrictive as the USA - in most of these countries - basically if you have a permit for a gun, you can get a suppressor too - as it is treated the same as a gun):

Germany
UK
Sweden
Finland
Hong Kong
Denmark

There are a lot of details on the second set of countries, but the idea was to post this to FB in order to inform people to sway them on suppressors and the HPA.
 
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I was in a gun store in North Yorkshire UK last summer and saw a bunch of suppressors in the case with the optics. It looked like most of the rifles on the rack had them attached as part of the package. It was kind of funny to hear someone say " gun laws don't work because criminals don't obey the law anyway" in a Yorkshire accent.
 

tac

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Allow suppressors.. don't allow guns. ok

If that comment was aimed at the UK faction, about 1/3 of our 450+ membership have one kind of moderator or another on a wide range of rifles and carbines. Some locations hereabouts REQUIRE the use of a moderator for any night-time shooting, and some daytime as well.

We don't have to pay your $200 FedTax for them here, either. :p

tac
 
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If that comment was aimed at the UK faction, about 1/3 of our 450+ membership have one kind of moderator or another on a wide range of rifles and carbines. Some locations hereabouts REQUIRE the use of a moderator for any night-time shooting, and some daytime as well.

We don't have to pay for them here, either. :p

tac

Could we get those guys to write our law makers and explain European enlightenment RE suppressors/moderators? They tout European gun control but as you point out - the devices are encouraged there while villified here.
 
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While buying guns in Europe a couple of years ago, I asked why the market for fine firearms (drilling’s and other traditional guns) was so soft.......they told me that younger people all wanted suppressed weapons and have lost interest in classic guns.
 

tac

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While buying guns in Europe a couple of years ago, I asked why the market for fine firearms (drilling’s and other traditional guns) was so soft.......they told me that younger people all wanted suppressed weapons and have lost interest in classic guns.

The problem is easy to understand. Having paid out between 5 and 25 thousand euros for that 'fine' [read, expensive] drilling or classic gun, older people are not going to be buying anything else perhaps for the rest of their lives.

Younger people, once they have their modern hunting rifle - IF they ever do so - perhaps, depending on where they are located, with a suppressor hung on the end - they want a fun gun. And where they can actually HAVE such a thing, it's pretty cool to have a can on it, right?

Your comment about 'classic guns' gives you away as a steel and wood gun fan, and not necessarily a fun-gun shooter - please tell me if I'm wrong, and the 21st century young shooter, without your buying capacity, WILL buy an affordable plastic-stocked .22cal black rifle lookalike gun with a bunch of add-ons and a can, because not only is it cheaper, but you can shoot it faster and more cheaply than ANY centrefire.

Remember, over here in Yoorup, Classic firearms means $$$$$$$$$$$$$, and fine guns means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and most young shooters have only got $$$.

One last thing to read, before you add me to your ignore list - over here in Yoorup English speakers refer to sporting arms of all kinds as firearms, never weapons. The military have weapons, but the police have firearms, but never weapons, and so do we civilians. The fact is that only the English language makes any distinction between weapons and firearms, a sad state of affairs. I'm sure you'd agree.

tac
 

tac

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I was in a gun store in North Yorkshire UK last summer and saw a bunch of suppressors in the case with the optics. It looked like most of the rifles on the rack had them attached as part of the package. It was kind of funny to hear someone say " gun laws don't work because criminals don't obey the law anyway" in a Yorkshire accent.

Ay, reet, tha' knows.

You can buy a moderator for an airgun without ANY documentation apart from being able to show that you are over 18.

You can ONLY buy a moderator for a FIREARM [or a firearm-level airgun] IF you have authority to acquire and possess such a thing in your Firearms Certificate. Firearms only come with a mod on them if they are second-hand, but many airguns have them built in to the barrel from the factory. Being caught with a mod on your firearm without authority will likely get you losing you FAC, and thus, all your guns, plus a hefty fine and perhaps some jail time, too.

It's not ALL fun over here.

tac
 
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You are correct on most counts. I have some plastic guns but they are never my preference. I haven’t bought a cheep gun for 30 years. Just bought my 4th Merkel. I am not in the Purdy class, somewhere below that. I lived in Germany for many years and carry a German hunting licence. Hunting in Europe (as off course you know) is very different than here in the US. It is not done by common people, but for hundreds of years has been recreation for the wealthy and connected. There guns usually reflect that status. Even a typical farmer can’t hunt his own ground as the rights have been sold off decades ago. There is very little public ground to hunt and the game is sold to the local butcher to offset the costs of owning the hunting rights (revier in Germany) Frequently German hunters are wealthy land owners that hunt and manage there revier full time. I have seen the local butcher accompany the hunter into the field to process the game after the shot. I don’t know a lot about hunting in Great Britain, I know rifle ownership is quite difficult. I had a Scottish stag hunt scheduled but it was interrupted by a bunch of collage kids taking over an embassy. I had just returned from an Ibex hunt near the embassy so the powers thought I might know something. So I was surprised by the voluntary shift from quality firearms to common production stuff, money was seldom an issue to a German or Austrian hunter. Stealth was though, they prefer dark hunting dogs and natural color clothes that are difficult to see in the field....maby that is what is fueling the interest in suppressors..............although, I ordered a new Adamy Stalking rifle in Suel and he is 3-4 years out. So, I guess there is still some sort of market remaining.
 

tac

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Here in UK we don't have the extremely stringent laws on hunting that prevail in Germany. where not even the owner of the land can just go out and shoot game that might be on it.

Here, I'd guess that about 25% of the 450-or-so members of my gun club are also game shooters of larger animals - deer of all kinds, and maybe 50% regularly shoot vermin or birds - there is a happy overlap of species. I have no idea of the number of game or clay shotgunners, but the figures show that there are around 6 million legally-owned shotguns here, so somebody is shooting them all. I would respectfully remind you that in spite of the widely-held belief that the UK is a gun-free zone, that figure represents almost 10% of the entire population of the UK. Of course, many have multiple shotguns - my pal Andy collects older models and has around 400-500 of them, but still...

All that is needed here is a Firearms Certificate for your rifle, granted by the county police chief for the purpose of deer-stalking/vermin shooting and a written letter from the landowner of the land over which you would like to shoot. This, naturally, comes first, so that you can justify the ownership of a stalking/vermin rifle in the first place. If is is deer that you are after, you MUST complete Part 1 of the British Deer Society game management course, so that you can demonstrate competence in shooting and dealing with the beast you have just killed. After that you can go on to Stage 2 and 3, if you wish to. Most do.

Most game shooters are also members of a target shooting club, too, so that they can hone their skills on a known distance set of ranges for zeroing and so on, use their chronographs in a controlled environment and get the input from other like-minded folks.

Those like-minded folks, like me, are just ordinary Joes, not the high-faluting snot-gobblers in tweeds and deer-stalking hats that seem to be the only kind of shooters that you guys in the USA can imagine over here. I don't know anybody with a bespoke rifle, let alone anybody who collects them, again, I emphasise that it is not a sport of aristocrats, although there are, for sure, aristocrats who do it. Going to Scotland for an organised deer shoot is neither a big deal, nor expensive, depending on where and when you do it. Check it out on the internet.

Sure, you can MAKE it expensive, right up to VERY expensive, but most of us don't live like that, having kids and mortgages and living in one of THE most expensive places to live in all of Europe. Very few other nations pay $8-10 a gallon for gas the way that we do.

I suggest that if you want to see what the ordinary guy does his deer-shooting then you watch it on Youtube - try the field sports channel, or that of the BASC organisation.

tac
 
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Here in UK we don't have the extremely stringent laws on hunting that prevail in Germany. where not even the owner of the land can just go out and shoot game that might be on it.

Here, I'd guess that about 25% of the 450-or-so members of my gun club are also game shooters of larger animals - deer of all kinds, and maybe 50% regularly shoot vermin or birds - there is a happy overlap of species. I have no idea of the number of game or clay shotgunners, but the figures show that there are around 6 million legally-owned shotguns here, so somebody is shooting them all. I would respectfully remind you that in spite of the widely-held belief that the UK is a gun-free zone, that figure represents almost 10% of the entire population of the UK. Of course, many have multiple shotguns - my pal Andy collects older models and has around 400-500 of them, but still...

All that is needed here is a Firearms Certificate for your rifle, granted by the county police chief for the purpose of deer-stalking/vermin shooting and a written letter from the landowner of the land over which you would like to shoot. This, naturally, comes first, so that you can justify the ownership of a stalking/vermin rifle in the first place. If is is deer that you are after, you MUST complete Part 1 of the British Deer Society game management course, so that you can demonstrate competence in shooting and dealing with the beast you have just killed. After that you can go on to Stage 2 and 3, if you wish to. Most do.

Most game shooters are also members of a target shooting club, too, so that they can hone their skills on a known distance set of ranges for zeroing and so on, use their chronographs in a controlled environment and get the input from other like-minded folks.

Those like-minded folks, like me, are just ordinary Joes, not the high-faluting snot-gobblers in tweeds and deer-stalking hats that seem to be the only kind of shooters that you guys in the USA can imagine over here. I don't know anybody with a bespoke rifle, let alone anybody who collects them, again, I emphasise that it is not a sport of aristocrats, although there are, for sure, aristocrats who do it. Going to Scotland for an organised deer shoot is neither a big deal, nor expensive, depending on where and when you do it. Check it out on the internet.

Sure, you can MAKE it expensive, right up to VERY expensive, but most of us don't live like that, having kids and mortgages and living in one of THE most expensive places to live in all of Europe. Very few other nations pay $8-10 a gallon for gas the way that we do.

I suggest that if you want to see what the ordinary guy does his deer-shooting then you watch it on Youtube - try the field sports channel, or that of the BASC organisation.

tac
What was the deal with the rash of British shotguns being sold here in the US a few years ago. Something in the law changed and forced people to sell there guns? I would like to learn about British sporting firearms as my heritage is so closely connected. Some that I have seen haven’t held up well but I am sure they weren’t the best quality to begin with. What compares to a Suel built German gun, I have seen British Greeners that shot loose. I was scheduled to hunt Red Deer Stag in Scotland but we had to use guns from the estate, couldn’t bring our own. Do you keep the meat from the game you shoot?
 

tac

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If you paid for the shoot on an estate shoot like you mentioned it, you shot it, you gralloched it and brought it down the hill. You paid for the privilege of shooting it. The whole deer-stalking deal on an estate, as you describe, is a matter of sharing it out between the estate management and the paying shooters. If, on the other paw, like most of us, you are shooting on private land by permission of the land-owner, either by yourself of with a shooting partner, then that is a matter between you and the land-owner, who might do a deal with you.

See, here in yUK we have around 300,000 deer too many, and most land-owners are very grateful to have somebody to safeguard their crops, or their young trees from deer, or their lambs/calves/gamebird chicks from foxes, although the foxes that predate them don't taste too good, the venison sure does, and local butchers sell a LOT of venison.


I hope this answers some of your questions, but to tell the truth, the story of the London gunmakers is not something that can be covered here, since a. I am neither knowledgeable enough to talk about them meaningfully, and b. not rich enough to be able to afford any of their products, unless I literally sold my house to do it.

tac
 

tac

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You wrote - What was the deal with the rash of British shotguns being sold here in the US a few years ago. Something in the law changed and forced people to sell there guns?

Back in 1988 there was a massacre in Hungerford. One of the guns used was a pump-action shotgun. So they were banned. Any shotgun that can fire up to three shots, SxS, O/U or semi, can be held on an ordinary shotgun certificate. If you want something that holds more that that, for wildfowling or practical shotgunning, then you must have a firearms Certificate like you have for a rifle.

Some folks couldn't be troubled to make the jump, and sold or otherwise disposed of their guns.

tac
 

tac

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Bringing your own gun to UK is a doddle - I'm amazed that you had been advised otherwise, TBH.

See -
Visitors to Scotland (and the rest of the UK) may only bring their firearm (rifle) or shotgun with them if they have in their possession a Visitor Firearm or Visitor Shotgun Permit. Such permits can be valid for up to 12 months but it is more common that these permits are limited to the length of the visit. The general rules and conditions which apply to the grant of a Firearm or Shotgun Permit are:
  • An application for a UK Visitor Permit must be made to the police by a sponsor, a person resident in that police area on behalf of you, the visitor. The sponsor is normally your host, sporting agent or a friend in Scotland. (Group applications are cheaper and may be made on behalf of up to 20 visitors provided they are all hunting on the same premises during the same period.)
  • Applications must be made at least 28 days before the planned visit.
  • Residents of EU Member States must be in possession of a European Firearms Pass. A photocopy or electronic scan of the EFP has to be forwarded with the application for a UK permit.
  • An applicant for any visitor’s permit must show good reason for possessing, purchasing or acquiring each firearm or shotgun.
  • For those not resident of an EU Member State applications should be accompanied by the original, or a copy of, any hunting or firearms licences held in his or her own country as well as evidence of an invitation to shoot in Scotland.
  • Entry into Scotland, or any other part of the UK, will not be allowed unless the hunter has a valid UK Permit. A European Firearms Pass on its own will not suffice.
  • Each Permit costs £20.00, though a group permit will cost no more that £100.00.
Where's the problem there?

tac
 

tac

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Any London-made gun will be the equal, if not better, than ANY foreign-made gun.

That's why Africa is kneedeep in London made double rifles and not drillings.

I earnestly suggest that you look at a few websites on Churchill, Cogswell & Harrison, Boss, Purdey, William Evans, Rigby and the others.

I'm left with the impression that you are substantially better off than most of us here, and you may well walk through their doors looking for their order book. Your opinion might well differ to mine, but I think that you would have been better served spending your money, like most well-off shooters do, by coming to London rather than going to Suhl. Your fifty thousand dollars would by you a nice rifle here - even a pair of [used] bespoke shotguns.....

tac
 

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