Cops confiscate woman's legal gun coillection without warrant and won't return them

[Blitzkrieg]

I see these cases are tests to see how far they can go without bullets flying..


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[Riot]

snip...

Her cache somehow caught the attention of Lakewood Police, who paid a visit last September. When they found Rice wasn’t home, they asked an obliging employee of the complex to open up the apartment without her consent. Once inside, they raided the gun rack, making off with 13 firearms worth around $15,000. The only problem: They had no apparent reason to.

When Rice kindly asked to have her toys returned, the cops acknowledged that the weapons were legally owned. But they refused to return them without a court order. And so Rice has filed suit in Lakewood Municipal Court.

Two things to note...

1) Even if you have stayed at your residence for years, know the owners personally or are even related to them- it is not your property unless you OWN it. At any time LEO can ask to search an appartment complex by simply asking the landlord to open the door. If your landlord is a dunce and doesn't ask for a warrant, you can end up like Ms. Rice.

2) For whatever reason (i.e. talking about it, taking pictures and showing them on Facebook, loading up guns for ranges wearing BDUs, etc.) the police cught wind of her poor OPSEC about firearms and decided to pounce. Obviously it sounds like the cops overstepped their authority and are even stepping on their own junk by not giving her her stuff back- the point in the matter is that the officers shouldn't have even known about her firearms to begin with.

As a side note, their could be charges pending that we don't know about...she could have very well threatened someone with her firearms and the police are holding them until the charges are cleared. Either way I hope this all gets cleared up.

*edit*

PDF Version of the Suit

http://www.lovelakewood.com/pdf/law/110817_guns.pdf

 

[kickstart my heart]

I love how the media always reports anytime there are multiple guns as an "arsenal" or they're "stockpiling" weapons. We must all be stockpiling arsenals then huh? I really hope this lady has a leg to stand on in court and the lawsuit goes her way. It ticks me off hearing about law enforcement doing stuff like that. I don't know all the story, but you have to wonder why a lot of people aren't fans of law enforcement. They see stuff like this go down, and don't trust cops all of a sudden. It's a shame. I've had friends in law enforcement who were great people, but I've seen the other side of it. Growing up in Bothell, I saw a lot of crooked stuff happen with their cops. Of course, there were a lot of times those same cops let us go without confiscating our booze when we were under age, or giving us a warning for racing, or fighting, etc. They're probably less apt to let kids go now a days.

 

[FelidaHouse]

I'm sorry, but what the F is going on in Ohio? First we had the cop who basically threatened to execute the driver during a traffic stop for holding a CCW and now this.

I like how the story implies that the gun owner's "arsenal" is composed of firearms obtained while serving in the armed forces, that "she brought a piece of the action back home".

Here's her "arsenal":

SKS M-21 Sniper Rifle
Ruger Blackhawk .357
Sentinel Arms 12 Gauge
GemTech .22 LR
Ruger Mark II .22 LR
Antique double barrel percussion shotgun
Springfield Arms .45 ACP
Thompson M1928 .45 ACP semi-auto
Mossberg 500A 12 gauge
Valkyrie Arms M3 .45 ACP semi-auto
Smith & Wesson M-686 .357
Makarov 9mm
Colt Model M1851 .44cal revolver

http://www.lovelakewood.com/pdf/law/110817_guns.pdf

 

[Misterbill]

Two things to note...

1) Even if you have stayed at your residence for years, know the owners personally or are even related to them- it is not your property unless you OWN it. At any time LEO can ask to search an appartment complex by simply asking the landlord to open the door. If your landlord is a dunce and doesn't ask for a warrant, you can end up like Ms. Rice.

Um, no.

You don't forfeit your 4th amendment rights because you are a renter. That's not how the amendment is written and not how it's enforced.

"Third parties lacking any apparent right to grant access (such as landlords and hotel personnell) cannot give valid consent to search another's property. Chapman v. United States"

 

[Stomper]

Plus, if you are current on your rent... you own the "domain" inside those walls for the month you paid for.

 

[Doubletap]

It appears she has a good lawyer..and by all rights..should win this.. However..she'd better be prepared to re-locate..far away from the area.. The harassment will be unbearable..not to mention the probable bogus citations..trumped up charges..etc..

 

[FelidaHouse]

The plot thickens:

WRITTEN REPORT By: 2P206
would like us to check to see if francesca rice in apt #709
is there. female is entered missing involuntary out of the
va hospital and they have a signed certificate from a
doctor stating she is a danger to herself or others and can
be taken back to the va hospital against her will due to
her mental and emotional status.

Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums &bull; View topic - watch out in Lakewood, Oh

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The plot thickens:



Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums &bull; View topic - watch out in Lakewood, Oh

Since when does a Dr have the right to convict any person of a crime by signing a scrap of paper?

 

[FelidaHouse]

Since when does a Dr have the right to convict any person of a crime by signing a scrap of paper?

You may not like it, but MD's are basically board certified officers of the state. If the diagnosis is incorrect, than the doctor is subject to malpractice. If someone is considered a danger to themselves or the community through an assessment of mental instability, than those are the breaks.

It's too bad that this important piece of information didn't come out in the original piece. But such is the flaw of the internet.

 

[EMP9596]

I think MD's in some states are supposed to notify a treated stroke victim to the DMV. Then the state suspends the patients drivers license until the Dr. releases them. (not sure on CC permits)
I know in the past there has been some dicussion on this site on the VA's policy's on certain classes of patients and firearms.

 

[NuthinFancy]

1) Even if you have stayed at your residence for years, know the owners personally or are even related to them- it is not your property unless you OWN it. At any time LEO can ask to search an appartment complex by simply asking the landlord to open the door.

Complete bubblegum.

Jokers are like you are why folks should automatically ignore 99.9% of what they read on 'teh interwebs'.

 

[Riot]

Um, no.

You don't forfeit your 4th amendment rights because you are a renter. That's not how the amendment is written and not how it's enforced.

"Third parties lacking any apparent right to grant access (such as landlords and hotel personnell) cannot give valid consent to search another's property. Chapman v. United States"

Sadly, there is always a loophole...

...a landlord has an absolute right to enter the demised premises "to view waste," and that he should be able to exercise that right through law enforcement officers to whom he has delegated his authority.

You are correct in the fact that in both cases (Chapman vs US and now Rice vs Lakewood) that both are a violation of the tenants 4th Amendment's rights. But the fact still remains that the landlord can take police inside your rented dweling without your consent or warrant.

 

[Misterbill]

Sadly, there is always a loophole...



You are correct in the fact that in both cases (Chapman vs US and now Rice vs Lakewood) that both are a violation of the tenants 4th Amendment's rights. But the fact still remains that the landlord can take police inside your rented dweling without your consent or warrant.

And nothing found incident to such an entry could be used as evidence against you.

Dude, you are full of beans here. Seriously. you are way, way off. As long as a place is your domicile or other place you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, a warrant is required. And the snippet you cited was an aside by the justice, not a caveat.

 

[Gunner3456]

In Oregon, a landlord has a right to enter and inspect HIS property with 24 hours notice. The time of entry must be a reasonable time. Nothing in the law allows him to inspect YOUR property.

This is a civil issue, and if you refuse entry, he can evict you.

The police must have been there due to the Dr's warning. And yes, a Dr. is required by law to report a lot of things including suspected lack of driving ability. Your shrink is required to report you if you are threatening to kill someone, or if he thinks you are a danger to people. The list goes on.

 

[nforest]

There are always two+ sides to a story, picking sides before you have all the facts just makes you look stupid when all the facts are presented later.

 

[Riot]

Last little comment on this thread...

Officers can even receive consent to enter your home from school-age children, so it's important to teach the kids, too, about their Fourth Amendment rights and the policy of your household.

If you're a tenant, your landlord is not entitled to let the police enter your home without a warrant, unless there's a provision in your lease authorizing the landlord to do so. So, if you rent, check your lease. Look for a sentence or two that says something like:

Landlord reserves the right to allow entry of law enforcement officials, upon request.
&#8211; or &#8211;

Landlord may admit law enforcement personnel onto premises, as needed, to further investigation or prevention of illegal activities.
Such clauses allow your landlord to consent to officers' entering your home, whether you agree or not.

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Googling it I've found that this answer is not as cut and dry as you might think (or at least what I thought). Even in the case mentioned it gets hinky about allowing the landlord to inspect the dweling with LEOs. I'm glad that their is a case file on this, but it appears as if it is in your lease, you waive consent to the landlord.

 

[hermannr]

My speculation:

1: The landlord is a snoop. He is the one that called the cops, and should be in court with them. Otherwise there would be notice that the officers had a legit warrent to search.

2: The rental agreement says "no firearms allowed" so the landlord told the PD to remove them.

#1 reason to read your rental agreement and line out and initial (both copies, yours and theirs) what you will not accept. There is no law that says you have to accept their terms, but you better know what those terms are before you sign.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You may not like it, but MD's are basically board certified officers of the state. If the diagnosis is incorrect, than the doctor is subject to malpractice. If someone is considered a danger to themselves or the community through an assessment of mental instability, than those are the breaks.

It's too bad that this important piece of information didn't come out in the original piece. But such is the flaw of the internet.

No, I don't like it at all and it is unconstitutional. We don't know all the facts of the case as you say but until a citizen is convicted by a jury of their peers there can be no taking of any personal effects, barring a duly constituted warrant which they did not have

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In Oregon, a landlord has a right to enter and inspect HIS property with 24 hours notice. The time of entry must be a reasonable time. Nothing in the law allows him to inspect YOUR property.

This is a civil issue, and if you refuse entry, he can evict you.

The police must have been there due to the Dr's warning. And yes, a Dr. is required by law to report a lot of things including suspected lack of driving ability. Your shrink is required to report you if you are threatening to kill someone, or if he thinks you are a danger to people. The list goes on.

Marx, Lenin and Trotsky must be grinning in their graves