Confederate Memorials

[Carbon]

I'd imagine for an African American person, seeing a Confederate statue in the town square would be like a Jewish person seeing a Nazi statue in the town square. I'm surprised it's taken us until 2020 to figure that out.

So, how should we feel about mt. Rushmore? The lakota souix are not pleased about having dead presidents memorialized on their native lands. The arrival of white settlers decimated their peoples and cultures. Is their suffering of the past less significant than the suffering of any other race? Do we only play favorites when its popular in current events? So who should tear down the monument, the natives for their loss, or the blm for the past slave owning presidents?

 

[Xaevian]

I'd imagine for an African American person, seeing a Confederate statue in the town square would be like a Jewish person seeing a Nazi statue in the town square. I'm surprised it's taken us until 2020 to figure that out.

I'm pretty sure the Jewish community doesn't want the world to forget the holocaust. They have whole organizations dedicated to preserving that memory. Heck, tell a Jewish person that it never happened...

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

I'd imagine for an African American person, seeing a Confederate statue in the town square would be like a Jewish person seeing a Nazi statue in the town square. I'm surprised it's taken us until 2020 to figure that out.

Perhaps not. As recently as August 2017 an NPR/Marist national public opinion poll taken after the events in Charlottesville found that a minority of only 40% of African-Americans thought "statues honoring leaders of the Confederacy should ... Be removed because they are offensive to some people". A plurality (44%) of African-Americans thought the statues should "Remain as a historical symbol". Over a year later a Winthrop University poll of Southerners found that just 55% of African-Americans wanted Confederate memorials removed.

This is despite the constant drumbeat in the mainstream media that there is only one correct and acceptable way to think about the Civil War and Confederate memorials. So, it may be that African-Americans are generally more tolerant and open-minded than you apparently imagine.

In any event, I'd imagine for some White Southerners, seeing a Confederate statue in the town square would be like a Greek seeing a statue of Leonidas I of Sparta. Or maybe it would be like a Jewish person seeing a statue of Joseph Trumpeldor in the 1930s, except then the Zionist movement still had the backing of an imperial power and the Battle of Tel Hai was neither a major nor lasting defeat. I'm surprised it's taken us until 2020 to figure that out.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

So, how should we feel about mt. Rushmore? The lakota souix are not pleased about having dead presidents memorialized on their native lands. The arrival of white settlers decimated their peoples and cultures. Is their suffering of the past less significant than the suffering of any other race? Do we only play favorites when its popular in current events? So who should tear down the monument, the natives for their loss, or the blm for the past slave owning presidents?

About thirteen years ago I watched the PBS documentary Last Stand at Little Big Horn (co-written by James Welch and narrated by N. Scott Momaday). I had long been a fan of Welch's writing.

In the film they include a quote from Black Hawk--a Lakota veteran of the 1876 battle of the Little Big Horn. He said: "These lands once belonged to the Kiowas and the Crows but we whipped those nations out of them and in this, we did what the White men do when they want the lands of Indians."

It's worth noting that, according to Anishnaabe history, the Anishnaabe are the people who drove the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota from their homes in the Great Lakes woodlands and on to the plains. The US Army was ably assisted by Crow and Pawnee scouts in their campaigns against the Sioux.

The Lakota claim to the Black Hills or any other territory is hardly more morally or legally compelling than the US government's. I'm glad we generally don't subscribe to the might-makes-right doctrine any more and the US should honor its treaty obligations. However, the hypocrisy of much of the mainstream narrative of conquest is stunning. You'd think White people were the only people to ever use naked force to advance their perceived interests and the only ones who can never be absolved of succeeding at it.

 

[ma96782]

Some people who have visited Honolulu, HI in the 60s thru the 80s might remember this.

Cross at Marine Base Must Go, Judge Rules

Aloha, Mark

PS......for awhile there was nothing there. Later, a large American Flag had replaced the cross.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Auschwitz is a historical site and a memorial. On the other hand, if there was a statue of Hitler or Himmler in the town square, it would have been torn down years ago.

Actually they were:

They were torn down under military occupation in the immediate aftermath of a brutal war. Is that kind of what you'd like to see happen in the modern-day South?

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

While we're at it, I'd like to know why the hammer and sickle, and "CCCP" logo t-shirts have somehow escaped scrutiny.. Millions of innocent people "disappeared" under that regime, some of whose only crime was laughing at the wrong joke. I know people who grew up in occupied Eastern Europe for whom those symbols are tantamount to a confederate flag or swastika.

'Hurtful on a number of levels': Victims of Communism Memorial among those defaced during rioting in DC

 

[Carbon]

About thirteen years ago I watched the PBS documentary Last Stand at Little Big Horn (co-written by James Welch and narrated by N. Scott Momaday). I had long been a fan of Welch's writing.

In the film they include a quote from Black Hawk--a Lakota veteran of the 1876 battle of the Little Big Horn. He said: "These lands once belonged to the Kiowas and the Crows but we whipped those nations out of them and in this, we did what the White men do when they want the lands of Indians."

It's worth noting that, according to Anishnaabe history, the Anishnaabe are the people who drove the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota from their homes in the Great Lakes woodlands and on to the plains. The US Army was ably assisted by Crow and Pawnee scouts in their campaigns against the Sioux.

The Lakota claim to the Black Hills or any other territory is hardly more morally or legally compelling than the US government's. I'm glad we generally don't subscribe to the might-makes-right doctrine any more and the US should honor its treaty obligations. However, the hypocrisy of much of the mainstream narrative of conquest is stunning. You'd think White people were the only people to ever use naked force to advance their perceived interests and the only ones who can never be absolved of succeeding at it.

Well written. I should state that the idea of the peaceful harmonious tribes prior to white settlers is a farce, for the most part. I think the nw tribes were fairly peaceful to one another due to the bounty of the land and sea, but the plains natives were well known for their warring prowess among one another.

 

[Mikej]

I don't understand why we can't look forward, to a better future, and and leave the relics of the past intact to remind us of wrongs committed in those times so that we know what NOT to do?

 

[CoastRange57]

So the political trolling continues, helping to make this forum become more unreadable. Somebody message me or not when all this chumming stops.

 

[STEELE]

Memorials are fine. Statues in the center of town are not. We shouldn't idol worship the Confederacy. Take those statues down, and the flags too. We have one national flag in this country.

So...I cannot continue to fly the Scottish flag in honor of my heritage?

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

I don't understand why we can't look forward, to a better future, and and leave the relics of the past intact to remind us of wrongs committed in those times so that we know what NOT to do?

There's money to be made and, more pointedly, power to be gained by weaponizing the past—whether that past is real or invented or some mix of both—to keep people divided. Extremists of all persuasions—Left, Right, and in-between—use the tactic.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

So the political trolling continues, helping to make this forum become more unreadable. Somebody message me or not when all this chumming stops.

What do you mean by "political trolling"? I ask that sincerely.

In the current political climate, it seems a foregone conclusion that a post about "Confederate Memorials" would contain lots of political opinions and arguments. Is that what you object to?

 

[MarshalChillN]

I don't understand why we can't look forward, to a better future, and and leave the relics of the past intact to remind us of wrongs committed in those times so that we know what NOT to do?

Well said ! and I agree !!!

 

[XoXSciFiGuy]

The last thing this country needs is another War Between the States, as the South prefers to call it.

The two basic reasons we had that war were States' Rights and the issue of slavery. Slavery is long gone, and states' rights can be decided by our government, the courts, and voters. It's the democratic way, something we agreed on more than two centuries ago.

I think it's okay for some states to display Confederate this or that. It's a good reminder that another civil war probably isn't a good idea for us. There were heroes on BOTH sides, and BOTH sides should be represented. It's a part of our history, and tearing down the relics won't make that go away. Some families fought for the South. Others for the Federals. You can't make that go away either. There is no use in trying to represent only ONE side and not the other. Both had pride. Both gave what they had because they thought their cause was right. It was a horror, and we learned from it.

What matters most is that we are ALL Americans, and we should stand together in any cause that threatens that existence.

 

[wired]

I live in the south and grew up there . My family fought for both sides . Dads side were confederate and moms union. I look at the Civil War the same way Lincoln did. There was no CSA. It was never recognized. They were just states that were in rebellion. While statues should stay if the state and local governments want them I see no reason whatsoever to keep the names of Confederate Generals on US military bases. They were arguably ( not ) treasonous at best and traitors to the U.S in reality. They dont deserve to have their names on US military bases.

 

[HaveGun]

I think Confederate war memorials aren't offensive to those that are educated and understand the real issues of the Civil War. But I can understand the uneducated minions that are easily swayed by media propaganda being offended. Which is most Americans these days, sadly.

The bottom line is that more and more people are offended by them and they should be removed in a legal and respectful manner and not by lawless vandalism. Two wrongs don't make a right seems to apply in this situation.

 

[CoastRange57]

I don't understand why we can't look forward, to a better future, and and leave the relics of the past intact to remind us of wrongs committed in those times so that we know what NOT to do?

Because the history deniers want the same attention as the flat earth and climate change crowd.

 

[CoastRange57]

What do you mean by "political trolling"?

Nice draw out question. You know damn well what I mean since you are a master at it.

I ask that sincerely

In your view maybe, but you are trying to start a contrary discussion based upon my reply, so sincerity has nothing to do with it.

Is that what you object to?

Another draw out question intended to spark contrary discussion. Any way I answer you will take such answer and twist it around to fit your narrative and to impinge my position. You are pretty good at this I can see, and since you come rolling in here recently and just started slinging it right away.

You can go ahead and reply, but I am putting you on ignore.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Nice draw out question. You know damn well what I mean since you are a master at it.

Actually, I don't know what you mean. I joined Northwest Firearms in 2012 but I haven't been very active until recently so I am not familiar with your concerns. If you don't like "political" threads then why do you read them, comment on them, and rant about them?

In your view maybe, but you are trying to start a contrary discussion based upon my reply, so sincerity has nothing to do with it.

Your ouija board, crystal ball, tarot cards or whatever it is you use to read people's minds is broken because you couldn't be more wrong about my motives.

Any way I answer you will take such answer and twist it around to fit your narrative and to impinge my position. You are pretty good at this I can see, and since you come rolling in here recently ...

What "position" is that? You refuse to answer a direct question and then whine and pout about stuff you read of your own free will. BTW, I joined Northwest Firearms two months before you did. Have a nice weekend.