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common arguments against the second amendments and answers

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by xm193, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. xm193

    xm193 seatac Active Member

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    2ND AMMENDMENT

    QUESTIONS
    WHO IS THE MILITIA?

    To answer we must have a good reference heres what THOMAS JEFFERSON (Author of Declaration of Independence, member Continental Congress, said about interpreting the constitution.
    • “On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” 12 Jun 1823 (The Complete Jefferson p.32)
    we had just thrown of a tyrant (england) and were severely distrustful of a large government governing from afar, hence the severe limiting of the federal government,the bill of rights ect and to further get the mindset of our framers we need only read the federalist papers and look at the state constitutions that were ratified around that time by some of the very men who signed the constitution and declaration of independence.

    GEORGE MASON (Virginia House of Burgesses, Virginia delegate to Constitutional Convention, wrote Virginia Declaration of Rights, wrote “Objections to the Constitution”, urged creation of a Bill of Rights)
    • “I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” (Jonathan Elliot, The Debates of the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, [NY: Burt Franklin,1888] p.425-6) seems that he was talking about the people themselves
    JAMES MADISON (Drafted Virginia Constitution, Member of Continental Congress, Virginia delegate to Constitutional Convention, named “Father of the Constitution”, author of Federalist Papers, author of the Bill of Rights, Congressman from Virginia, Secretary of State, 4th President)
    • “Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation.. (where) ..the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” (Federalist Papers #46)
    RICHARD HENRY LEE (Signed Declaration of Independence, introduced resolution in Continental Congress to become independent, proposed Bill of Rights from beginning, author of Anti-Fed Papers, Congressman and Senator from Virginia)
    • “A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves…and include all men capable of bearing arms.” 1788 (Federal Farmer, p.169)
    • “To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” 1788 (Federal Farmer) getting a constant theme here yes the militia is in fact the people and was never questioned until of late
    now lets look at a state that was around during that time and what their constitution says
    : The present-day Pennsylvania Constitution, using language adopted in 1790, declares: "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."


    How about the right of the people to pick up arms against its own government?
    declaration of independence has something to say of this:
    That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
    Although it warns that prudence best observed the right is unquestionable
    • “And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms…The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Letter to William S. Smith 13 Nov 1787 (Jefferson, On Democracy p. 20, 1939; Padover, editor)
    • “The few cases wherein these things (proposed Bill of Rights) may do evil, cannot be weighed against the multitude where the want of them will do evil…I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government…” (letter to Madison 31 July 1788, The Papers of James Madison, Hobson & Rutland, p.11:212)
    madison • “To these (federal troops attempting to impose tyranny) would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands.” (Federalist Papers #46)
    patrick henry • “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.” During Virginia Ratification Convention 1788 (Elliot p.3:45)
    it seems clear that our founders intended that the second amendment and gun ownership and the right to take up arms was intended to go to the individual as with the rest of the bill of rights . All were written to the individual . The second amendment is vitally important as without it neither of the other rights would ultimately be defended.
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Great read and dead, spot on!!
     
  3. oregonty

    oregonty Salem, OR Active Member

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    Well done sir! Thanks.

    I doubt that many people today have the backbone to stand up to our government though. I know that many people on here would not think twice about acting against the gov. if they came for our guns.
     
  4. Spad

    Spad Kennewick,WA, the desert side Active Member

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    Thank you for the research you had to do to bring this to our attention, in black and white.....Sure wish more people could read this...Spad
     
  5. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    according to US law, who is the militia? Every swinging Richard. 10 USC § 311 - Militia: composition and classes | LII / Legal Information Institute

    10 USC § 311 - MILITIA: COMPOSITION AND CLASSES
    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b) The classes of the militia are—
    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.