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Clark County WA Ordinance problems

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by ParabellumPrincess, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. ParabellumPrincess

    ParabellumPrincess vancouver New Member

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    To all Clark County residents and gun dealers. I have been doing some research on ordinances in Clark Co. We discovered that two of our current commissioners had voted back in 2005 to amend our Declared Emergency Ordinance to disarm legally armed citizens during a declared emergency. It was discovered back a few months ago and brought to the attention of the County Commissioners. However, after over 4 months, the issue had not been dealt with. I began research as to how this could still be on the books. I found that not only is our county ordinance illegal, but so is the state of WA. In 2006, about a year after the chaos that occurred with the Katrina hurricane and legally armed citizens were disarmed, sometimes causing great distress and injury, federal legislation was passed that guaranteed we could no longer be disarmed during a declared emergency. Our state law never caught up and still has this disarming section in there. After addressing the CC Commissioners, they assured me it would be corrected to reflect federal law.

    About 2 weeks later I did more research on Parks Ordinances throughout CC. Most park signs indicated that firearms were prohibited on park grounds. I originally thought it was just the signs that were wrong as about 3 years ago the Mayor of Seattle tried to ban firearms from city parks and were sued by the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation. After an expensive court battle, the city lost. Assuming the County of Clark didn't wish to be sued, I only assumed they had amended the ordinance but failed to fix the signs. But, that is not what I found. The ordinance stated, "No person shall, at any time, bring into or upon, possess , nor discharge within or upon the park properties of the county any bow and arrow, crossbow, slingshot, spring or gas propelled BB and pellet guns, spears or javelins, or any other weapon....." It is clear that any other weapon included firearms. This was illegal. I again, brought it to the Commissioners attention. They had addressed this issue and had amended this particular Ordinance about a year ago....so I am not sure why they worded it the way they did. It clearly prohibited firearms. As it will be written, though, they have excluded firearms but still states "any other weapon, except firearms..." This could include pepper spray and Tasers. Should it? As of next Tuesday, July 31, this amendment to the Ordinance will be voted upon to correct the prohibition. (10am, 901 W Franklin, 6th floor).
    TO ALL FIREARMS DEALERS -- The Commissioners have amended the Emergency Ordinance but have kept in two sections that should cause concern...(e) requiring the discontinuance of the sale, distribution or giving away of firearms and/or ammunition for firearms in any or all parts of the county". and (g) "requires the closure of any or all business establishments where firearms and/or ammunition for firearms are sold or otherwise dispensed; .... It seems that during a time of emergency, they have now "allowed" you to carry your firearm, but should you not have ammunition, you are plum out of luck. As well, you don't have a firearm, you will not be allowed to purchase one. If all protocol is the same as during non-emergency purchases, why should this be any different?
    I will be at the Commissioners meeting on Tuesday to thank them for the corrections but still ask them why the restrictions of firearms sales, etc.still is present in the ordinance. If you are concerned with this part of the Ordinance, the strength in numbers cliche' is paramount here. If the Commissioners understand that the Firearm community believes the action of shutting down their businesses during this time is wrong, please come and voice that opinion. It might change their minds and they could dispense with that part of the ordinance.
     
  2. PNWPatriot

    PNWPatriot Clark County Washington New Member

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  3. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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  4. lamrith

    lamrith tacoma Active Member

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    Para: Thanks for the effort to get this sort of thing cleaned up. Pre-emption aside, not everyone that carries frequents these forums to know that. I am betting some of the LEO's in these counties/cities may be clueless as well.

    This makes for a cluttered and seemingly scarey situation in which some law abiding carriers will not carry for fear a simple mistake loses them their right to carry ever again. That puts us in a situation like Aurora where nobody is carrying due to confusion, and we all know when that happens we ALL lose.

    Having these laws completely off the books means nobody can make a mistake as to what is legal.
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You might let Walmart, ACE. Fred Meyers, and any other Varity stores that also sell ammo about this. I doubt Walmart would like being shut down after an earthquake
     
  6. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    It makes it void, but tell that to the disarming authorities during such an event. Would be a nice case for the 2nd amendment foundation in Bellevue I guess.
     
  7. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    The authorities need to understand this BEFORE such an event.
     
  8. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    That's what I meant, that the SAF or a similar organization would take this to court now rather than after the fact.
     
  9. Hotolds442

    Hotolds442 Washougal Member

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  10. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Even one City of Vancouver attorney says that weapons are prohibited in city parks even with a permit. Wondering if he's relying on the Cherry ruling and not the latest about Seattle?
     
  11. ParabellumPrincess

    ParabellumPrincess vancouver New Member

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    deen_ad Which City of Vanc atty are you referring to? I'd like to chat with them about this. I have contacted 3 of the cities of which the commissioner was referring to. 2 of the 3 had no clue what he might be talking about. City of Washougal (Commander of Washougal Police) said...If we are out of compliance with WA state law, we need to know and correct it. The City of Ridgefield (Police Chief) said.... well, I'll put it on my "to-do" list. I have a lot of things on there tho, so it won't be soon. Sounds like a strange answer if you ask me. I guess if I knew I was out of compliance and it could cause a lot of havoc if the citizens know the law is wrong and the cops aren't sure or dont care.....lots of chaos could ensue. I'm going to dig deep into all the cities that Stuart mentioned. Here's the video of my testimony and the commissioners response. It's quite telling who is on what side of this issue. Mind you, 2 of the 3 commissioners (Boldt and Stuart) voted to disarm you in and emergency back in 2005. Now, sounds to me like Stuart wants to still have the capability to hold some power in that area.... This section is only about 12 minutes long. CC Emeg Ord. 7-31-2012 - YouTube
     
  12. ParabellumPrincess

    ParabellumPrincess vancouver New Member

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    I absolutely agree! I'm real concerned with the signs in the parks right now. I can see the "hypothetical" situation where I am carrying my gun in a park as I hike. A cop sees me and tells me I am not allowed to carry in the park. I tell him he's mis-informed. He says I am being belligerent. I either get into trouble because I correct him, or I have to leave or he disarms me. None of these is the right answer. But, because the sign says NO Firearms...thats what the cop thinks. I am going to stay on this issue. I know, after talking to the Parks guy in the City, he told me they were going to HAVE to change the signs since.... there is NO SMOKING IN PARKS now..... So they have to change them. Really? That;s the most important reason? Their priorities are goofy.
     
    Grunwald and (deleted member) like this.
  13. ParabellumPrincess

    ParabellumPrincess vancouver New Member

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  14. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Not sure, it was reported by a section in The Columbian. The section where people can ask "what's up with that" I wrote the writer an email about it but never got an answer. I'll see if I can find the email.
    Found it:
    Here's what I emailed on 05/09/12 to the writer:
     
  15. ParabellumPrincess

    ParabellumPrincess vancouver New Member

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    Two weeks before at the Commissioner meeting when I brought up the gun ban and wrong signs at the parks, Steve Stuart said, "I know that the City of Vancouver can ban guns from parks..." of which I corrected and told him that wasnt the case and that that had been changed. Kind of scary that our officials don't have a clue what the laws are. Why should we expect the cops to know if the people that make the laws dont? I can see there is going to be certain things they are going to fight....but I'm fighting back anyway. They need to be compliant with the law.
     
  16. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me I wrote Stewart an email about the wrongful posting at the Sheriffs office regarding carrying in there too. He came back and said it was being changed.
     
  17. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    We'll be following up through my business as well. The idea that we can't sell you firearms or ammunition during an emergency is ludicrous. We have a pretty good reach in informing people about stuff like this as well. I've posted a link to this dicusssion on our Facebook page, and we'll post some details on the community board in our shop.
     
  18. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't Stewart I contacted, it was Ed Orcutt's staff that contacted the Sheriff here and the answer was that they had changed the policy but the sign hadn't been changed yet (This was in April 2011).