Chl ammo insight

[takto101]

Hello, I'm new to the CHL world and had a question regarding ammunition. I've heard that the best ammunition to use for self-defense is the same type that local law enforcement uses. The idea is that if you ever have to use it in a self-defense situation, it reduces the risk of legal issues, as you're using the same ammo that police carry. I'm in Eugene, OR, and, as you may know, sometimes the media can spin situations in a way that makes it seem like you're just looking for a reason to hurt people. Any insight on what ammo Oregon law enforcement uses would be greatly appreciated.

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[Pepe-lepew]

That rumor is more likely from paranoid gun owners. Likely around the time black talons were available. You can read about it in Wikipedia.

I recently watched a video with ammo manufacture representatives. They mentioned police duty ammo goes through more inspections than other ammo they produce. Much of that ammo is the same as self defense ammo on the shelves of local stores.

Just go to your local ammo supplier, like Bimart or Cabelas, and buy self defense loads. Hornady Critical Defense, Speer Gold Dot or Federal Hydra-Shok are good options. Run at least a box through you firearms to confirm reliable function. Then use that ammo for your carry ammo.

 

[CamoDeafie]

There's a term for such beliefs regarding self defense ammo. "Fudd-lore".

There are absolutely no evidence that the use of ammo other than what the police uses, have been the sole reason to charge gun owners with unjustifiable homicides. There are always other reasons out there used against gun owners.

 

[JuglansRegia]

I like living on the edge so my carry piece is packed with handloads.

 

[gmerkt]

On the other hand, at one time there was a school of thought that if you used some kind of fancy, defensive ammo, this fact would give the impression that you were out looking for trouble. In other words, you intentionally used ammo that was more lethal than "ordinary" ammo.

If you find yourself the survivor of a defensive shooting, you're already going to be "in trouble" to some degree. It's automatic. Do everything you can to avoid a defensive shooting before you pull the trigger.

 

[takto101]

I had a hunch it was more of a 'Fudd-lore' type of thing, but you hear so much that it gets you thinking. It's interesting to see what other people believe. And yeah, I checked out the Black Talon ammo—pretty fascinating. Turns out, all they did was change the coating on the rounds and rebranded them as 'Ranger,' but it's the same bullet.

 

[takto101]

Honestly, I might just go all in and try some of that Jihawg Ammo too—just to see how people would react. I can already picture the reactions it'd get!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Hello, I'm new to the CHL world and had a question regarding ammunition. I've heard that the best ammunition to use for self-defense is the same type that local law enforcement uses. The idea is that if you ever have to use it in a self-defense situation, it reduces the risk of legal issues, as you're using the same ammo that police carry. I'm in Eugene, OR, and, as you may know, sometimes the media can spin situations in a way that makes it seem like you're just looking for a reason to hurt people. Any insight on what ammo Oregon law enforcement uses would be greatly appreciated.

Skip to 10:40 mark to hear summary from a self defense lawyer.

View: https://youtu.be/NSduvxQO7TA?si=Q0fAEMocfL5Jdb9J

 

[nammac]

Personally carry:

Federal HST
Speer Gold Dot
Winchester Ranger

All hollow points. Police carry hollow points, so should be pretty safe for me to carry them too. And they mitigate, for the most part, the over penetration concern.

 

[Member 53867]

Heck, I'll just carry a double-barrel 12 gauge and load each shell with 9 dimes.

If it was good enough for Deputy Marshal Ameredith Robert "Pecos Bob" Olinger (until that little pipsqueak William Bonney got 'hold of it!), then it's good enough for me!

 

[gryghin]

Well, we all know that using a double barrel shotgun and shooting through the door is a presidential response.

So, long jackets and Shockwave should be top of the list.

 

[Koda]

There's a term for such beliefs regarding self defense ammo. "Fudd-lore".

There are absolutely no evidence that the use of ammo other than what the police uses, have been the sole reason to charge gun owners with unjustifiable homicides. There are always other reasons out there used against gun owners.

Its not fudd lore.
Rittenhouse and Harold Fish case are two trials where the prosecutors tried to use the ammo choice to win a conviction. The Fish case was a conviction.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Its not fudd lore.
Rittenhouse and Harold Fish case are two trials where the prosecutors tried to use the ammo choice to win a conviction. The Fish case was a conviction.

Was the ammo the sole reason for the conviction or attempts to convict?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

What ammo works best and shoots best with your carry gun / defensive gun...?
Find that out....and stick with that ammo.
Andy

 

[Koda]

Was the ammo the sole reason for the conviction or attempts to convict?

Of course not, but thats not the point at all the point is ammo choice was used to persuade a jury and it has in fact come up in court cases. The idea that one wont be convicted of a lawful self defense shooting based only on the lawfulness of the shooting is a fallacy, or people like Rittenhouse would have never been charged in the first place. Fish lost his case, despite the lack of evidence of murder.

 

[Dozer99]

Use good ammo. See what your Carry gun likes and what makes the smallest group.


"I'd rather be tried by 12, than carried by 6"

 

[CamoDeafie]

Of course not, but thats not the point at all the point is ammo choice was used to persuade a jury and it has in fact come up in court cases. The idea that one wont be convicted of a lawful self defense shooting based only on the lawfulness of the shooting is a fallacy, or people like Rittenhouse would have never been charged in the first place. Fish lost his case, despite the lack of evidence of murder.

The only thing I could find of Fish's case was that the prosecutor talked about the caliber (10mm), not the ammo type, and that they convicted him for 2nd degree murder based on the events of that day (State claimed dead guy tried to get dogs and claimed Fish trigger happy basically).

Fish was freed upon appeal and not retired under new Arizona self defense law that retroactively applied to his case

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Seems to me things that persuade the jury you are looking for a fight or that's it's premeditated could be used against you. Fe t shirts or stickers on your gun that promote violence. The Rest in peace ammo mentioned in the video above has marketing and its very name that could hurt you in court.

But it you are a normal person (ie not promoting violence or looking like you are spoiling for a fight) that is defending yourself with ammo you trust and your attorney could explain why you use that ammo (again as stated in the video) then that is fine. All imo.

 

[Koda]

I had a hunch it was more of a 'Fudd-lore' type of thing, but you hear so much that it gets you thinking. It's interesting to see what other people believe. And yeah, I checked out the Black Talon ammo—pretty fascinating. Turns out, all they did was change the coating on the rounds and rebranded them as 'Ranger,' but it's the same bullet.

its not fudd lore, ammo choice has in fact been used in self defense trials. In order to make an informed choice you have to know all sides of the question. The correct answer to your question is to get both sides of the subject so you can decide. There are those that dont believe ammo choice could be used against you, and there are lawyers and witness experts that recommend carrying what law enforcement use.

You be the judge of your choice, its your trial.

All that said, unless you handload I dont really see the issue with all the usual proven hollowpoint carry ammo options, there isnt a need to carry the one or two off brands that were dumb enough to market their ammo as "RIP".

 

[Koda]

The only thing I could find of Fish's case was that the prosecutor talked about the caliber (10mm), not the ammo type, and that they convicted him for 2nd degree murder based on the events of that day (State claimed dead guy tried to get dogs and claimed Fish trigger happy basically).

Fish was freed upon appeal and not retired under new Arizona self defense law that retroactively applied to his case

If I recall, your correct in the Fish case it was more about the caliber than the bullet type. But it is an example of how gear choices were used in the court that had nothing to do with if he was justified or not.