Cap and ball rebore

[stigster]

I was talking to my father today and he was asking if I knew armorers or gunsmiths in WA who rebore ball and cap guns. He said he called Redmans Rifling and Reboring in Omak and the guy was a jerk. Told my father he doesn't waste his time and hung up. So, I told I'm I'd ask around and hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction and educate me as well. I live over in the Seattle area, my father lives in Spokane.

My knowledge of his gun is very limited so I apologize for that. I'll try and get more info in the next couple of days and update the post. Here's what he told me, the bore looks like an hourglass as if a previous owner tried to smooth out the groove threads and did a hack job. He's looking to rebore the barrel from a .424 To .433. Any recommendations in the PNW?

My father said he talked to a guy who could put it on a lathe. I'm not sure if that's common practice or even safe. Could someone please educate me on which method(s) are acceptable: reboring, resleeving, or putting it on a lathe. Thank you in advance!

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[jj500]

Probably need more info on gun .type Mfg.what caliber is it now? If it is a repro probably would be cheaper to buy a new barrel for it.Awaiting more info.

 

[tac]

Are we talking about a rifle, here? The 'groove threads' are the rifling, BTW.

No matter if it is percussion or flintlock rifle, then reboring or relining is pretty commonplace, both historically and contemporaneously. THE man for this is Bobby Hoyt - nationally well-regarded for this kind of work. He usually relines the barrel with a bore of your choice, in return only for money. He is not, however, in the PNW, but Velzey, a frequent poster here and a very fine gunsmith, IS.

As jj500 notes, we need to know a LOT more about this firearm than you have told us thus far. The bore you mention sounds like the land measurements for a .45cal rifle - I've never heard of a .424 or .433 calibre rifle. Guns of this kind are usually measured by the groove diameter, not the lands, and shoot an undersized ball with a patch to make it closely fit the 'hole'.

Is it a reproduction/modern-day replication or an antique?

AndYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

VelzeYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!

Where are yous?

 

[tac]

Re your comment, 'He said he called Redmans Rifling and Reboring in Omak and the guy was a jerk. Told my father he doesn't waste his time and hung up.'

Good to know for people here in the PNW that one of the locals is so helpful, eh?

Quote from Redman's own blurb -

Redmans Rifling and Reboring was estabilished in 1973 by Randall Redman, being an accomplished machinist and gun enthusiast, Randall was trained in the art of reboring and rifling by the nation's leading barrel reborer and rifler, Ward Koozer. Randall relines gun barrels back to their original caliber using barrel liners manufactured in his shop. These gun barrel liners can be used in barrel relines or the manufacture of new gun barrels. He also manufactures magazine tubes for lever action rifles. Because of his top quality craftsmanship and satisfied customers, Redman's Rifling and Reboring has become the nation's leading barrel restoration shop.

He might be the leading light in reboring, but by the sound of it he needs to work on his 'people' skills.

Luckily it's no hardship for me to stay away from his establishment in droves, since I live almost 5000 miles away.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Would love to know more about the firearm for sure.

If it is a antique firearm :
One thing to consider before doing anything is to remember that rifling was often "played around with" in regards to :
Styling..
Depth...
Number of grooves...
Types of grooves and twist rates...
And even grooves with no twist , etc...

Also in some cases of antique Southern Mountain Rifles that I owned or seen , the whim of the gun maker can do many WTH things with rifle.
The list here could be endless.


Reboring as noted above was a common practice with barrels that were made from iron and the only guns were muzzle loaders.

If the firearm is a newer made replica , again as noted above , it may be best to re-barrel it.

Looking forward to learning more about the rifle in the OP.
Andy

 

[stigster]

Thank you for the replies! I was able to get quite a bit more info today. This is a Rusco 12mm pistol. On the barrel is engraved, Madison Import Corp. Model 3. Cal 12mm. Made in Spain. He believes it is a reproduction (of what we aren't sure) that he picked up back in the 1960s.



I tried to post a few pictures of the "rifling" for detail but I was told it's rough boring done incorrectly. My dad described the rifling more like threads on a bolt or screw than a traditional rifle bore.



I was incorrect when I said .424 caliber. My dad explained to me that he custom made his own lead round balls into .424 and shot those for years. He never cared about the accuracy as he just enjoyed shooting the pistol. He finally has the time to put effort into this and bore the barrel to accept .433 lead round balls, commercially available.

Wanted to clarify the hourglass comment...he used that term to describe to me the status of the barrel. When looking down the barrel, the .424 lead ball is quite loose at the barrel entrance and exit while having the least amount of "play" in the center of the barrel.

Hope this clears up the muddy water a little bit. Does anyone have any information as the history or any details on this Rusco? Is the "bolt/screw" style rifle boring an acceptable way to increase accuracy or just a crappy job? Would you recommend reboring, resleeving, trying to find a new barrel, or putting it on a lathe to achieve .433? The fact that no ones even mentioned a lathe, I'm going to assume that shouldn't be an option.

As always, thank you in advance!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You have a inexpensive "replica" percussion pistol.
12mm....is about .47 caliber...which is a correct period caliber 1820's - 1840's.
Replica is in quotes here , because the pistol really isn't a copy of anything.

I am a bit concerned with the breech being removed....
That could lead to problems if it is not reinstalled tightly and aligned correctly.

As for the rifling....it just done in a modern style....not cut like an original antique firearm.

If it were mine...
I'd get the breech back on correctly and find a mold that casts a .450 -.460 round ball*....this actually isn't too difficult as , many pocket pistols of the 1820's and 1840's used this size.
If accuracy is lacking...a thicker patch may be of some help with that issue.
*Assuming that the bore is indeed 12mm / .47 caliber...I'd mic or get a bore gauge and double check.

Speaking of accuracy ...pistols of these sorts were designed for close range...like bad breath distance...not Olympic type target shooting....
The is not a target pistol.
Also a light load would be wise....something in the order of 20 grains of 2 or 3 F black powder.

To be honest here , re-boring or re-barreling the pistol would cost far more than what the pistol is worth.
Andy

 

[DLS]

This looks like a kit gun that I built when in Jr. Highschool.

 

[BigDog67]

Reassemble it and enjoy shooting as is.

 

[DLS]

How does it presently shoot? If okay I'd agree with @BigDog67, go out with it, shoot it, enjoy it.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Almost anything (except bringing back the dead) is manageable with enough funding. If you want to spend several hundred dollars to re-bore and rifle (or put in a rifled liner)for this piece, I am sure you could find someone. The first guy was probably a jerk because he quickly realized what you were asking him to do was going to cost several times what the piece is worth.

 

[stigster]

All valid points. I understand where you all are coming from. If it was mine I wouldn't put the money in it....I believe what lead my dad towards this is he ran out of his custom sized home cast rounds and enjoys shooting the gun. Guessing he figured why not go commercial size. It's also probably part sentimental.

i guess he found a guy out in Coeur d'Alene so he'll head out there tomorrow And chat with him. Maybe his mind will change after talking to this person or getting the quote.

Thank you all for your input, it's been a pleasure. I'm hoping to be more active on the forum in the next year as I just finished building my first custom rifle. Always something to learn. Stay Safe!

 

[edzz]

If he's been ok shooting his cast balls but just doesn't want to cast anymore just hand the mold to a caster and pay him to cast up a few hundred balls.
Would be a lot cheaper than "fixing" it.
The reference to a lath was likely to be used to bore the barrel out to accept a liner.

 

[DLS]

Or buy a mold and give it to the caster to add to his collection so long as be keeps your dad supplied from time to time. They make round ball molds in all sorts of sizes so I'd be really surprised if you could not locate an appropriate sized mold.

 

[BigDog67]

If it is indeed a 12mm, then 12mm= 0.47244094488 Inches, as Andy54Hawken stated. If that is the case, a .453 ball used in cap and ball revolvers should work fine with a patch of proper thickness. They are readily available.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Looking at the pictures I kind of question whether that barrel was ever rifled. It looks more like a bad bore job to me.