Buying or build a sub MOA rifle?

[DieselScout]

But I appreciate all the responses and information.
I think I'll find a nice 700 to start with,as that seems to be the first answer most (here and other places) have given.

Sounds like a good choice. My first gun I bought was a 700, from a club member. It was just a barreled action, I got a stock for it on Ebay (back when they sold that sort of thing) and a scope at a gun show, then threw it all together for a nice hunting rifle. Later I added a Timney trigger as well.

Don't discount a Savage 110 or 10 or a Stevens 200 for that matter. They are a bit cheaper (especially the Stevens) and you can do the barrel swap with a few tools at home. Either way, good luck and have fun!

 

[mjbskwim]

Here is a great and very well thought article on Practical LR Shooting. Very well worth the time it takes to read them.
There are also many more on the sight as you get more advanced.

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART I: THE RIFLE & GEAR

I'll be going though this article for sure

 

[Spitpatch]

mjbskwim, you are on the right track.

It may be entirely possible to get 1 MOA out of a factory sporter-weight gun with judicious handloading and easily performed home remedies (glass bedding, trigger adjustment, etc.) I am a Rem700 fan. I understand that this action's legendary accuracy has come into question with more recent manufacturing techniques. It should have gotten better. Apparently, handwork was better. I still have not failed to finally achieve 1'' groups from any factory standard-weight M700, with good handloads, glass bedding, and trigger adjustment. That is a pretty good testimonial. Even if I heard it from myself.

This claim extends to very recent acquisitions, including an "econo-model" M700 Youth Synthetic, .243. It shot so well out of the box with factory loads, that I tried a few handloads for it, got 3/4" right off the bat, and then my girlfriend took it to Montana and killed the very best antelope that will hang on our wall next to 27 others.

Now, if you are looking for the cream of the crop M700, find a heavy-barrelled varminter BDL from the '70's that has not been shot much (good luck) in .25-06 or .22-250. These guns are miracle tackdrivers with no modificaton. Pay the asking price, because if you don't, I will.

But you said "build". Again, for ideal, you would look for an early M700 action, (what caliber, short or long action?) For accuracy, some benefit may be realized by the short action. Also, some accuracy may be realized by no floorplate (blind magazine). Barrel choice and smith will be your greatest decisions. If, as you state, you want to build an MOA gun, you will pay your smith to guarantee his work (and show you targets) that cement your desire. I will tell you this: I have guns in a number I will not count. I have one that was custom built for accuracy.

If you are not a "product of cow rear-end" talker, and want a gun that will look and do as you want, and have the money to spend, I wil recommend Dennis Olson of Plains, Montana. He loves his neighbor's hand-made barrels: Dan Lilga. (Lilga barrels).

I cannot offer an expense decision to you. But a custom gun, in a decent caliber, with a synthetic stock and an accuracy guarantee will run about $2500 (or more). Dennis will certainly simply put a Lilja barrel on your M700 action and true it up for a lot less than that, ($500?) and I'll bet you a pepsi against a starbucks that it hits 1 MOA, regardless of how you stock it.

 

[kickstart my heart]

Well, if you don't want to spend a ton of money, find an FN PBR. I've shot a couple that buddies had and they were both sub moa guns. All they did was torque down the screws that hold the action to the stock, get trigger jobs done, and but decent glass and rings. Seen them lightly used with optic for around a grand. Seen them new on gunbroker for around $800 a few months back when I considered getting one.

If you're looking to have a gun built, I highly recommend SPR Industries LLC out of Seattle (360)461-6875.

<broken link removed>

Tom builds some tack drivers and his prices are very reasonable. He'd probably recommend building you something on a remington 700 or CZ action. Plus he's a real nice guy, and full of gun knowledge.

 

[nitestocker]

go pick up a savage in 308 or 300 win mag with the accutrigger. put a set of leupold rings and mount on it get a luepold vx111 milldot scope and your good to go . the truth i have the same combo but mine is in 3006 and the scope is a leupold x11 milldot

 

[das_napeth]

While the Remington is a great rifle, I personally went with a $250 scoped 7mm magnum Savage to convert to .300WM. They have never failed me and the bolt is vented in case of over-pressure if something does go wrong. The only appeal to me of the Remington 5R rifling is that it's designed to be more accurate after hundreds of rounds between cleaning which if I was in combat would be a thing to consider but since I am not, doesn't affect me. Mcgowen just got my barrel finished so I have to wait for that to show up but most parts that are available for Remington is also available for the Savage I.E: recoil lug, trigger, detachable mags, MOA bases etc.

 

[A.I.P.]

Buy the pre-built and gaurenteed rifle (with a money back gaurenteed offer) or buy a refurbished sub-MOA rifle.
If you build your own and screw-up you have to sell it and start again.
Personaly speaking a Sub-MOA Rifle takes an expert to use at long range, we are talking 600 yards as minium range, and 1600 yards as still achievable. The Dynamics at those ranges that must be caculated and compensated for as well as the optics needed far exceed most ppls pocket books and skills.
Lots of dogs chase cars, only a few can drive one

 

[1911Man]

On day one of load development, taking wild guesses at some powders in min+1gr and max-1gr amounts, here's my new .22-250 Savage Model 10 Predator pushing 50gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint bullets at 100y. The square is 2in on a side. It did this with all three powders. Further load dev will have to be at 300y. This is a good problem to have.

 

[Otis61]

I've got a Rem and a Savage. Both stock. Both varmint barrels, and the Savage shoots way better groups. Seemingly effortlessly.

 

[garyhan]

Easiest and cheapest way to get a sub moa rifle is to buy a Tikka or Weatherby Vanguard. Both are guaranteed moa rifles (the new Vanguards now guarantee moa rather than the previous 1 1/2 moa). Savage and Rem both have excellent accuracy reps, but Tikka and Weatherby guarantee it.

gary

 

[Otis61]

I've got a stock Savage model 12 in .243. A good lapp job, and bedded, and that thing shoots less than .5moa all day long.

 

[mjbskwim]

I was at Cabela's yesterday and they had a couple Howas on the used rack. The sticker on the stock said "Sub MOA" .They didn't have a caliber I wanted,but this looks like it might be a start.
Howa makes the Vanguard correct?
I know some varminters like them.

 

[MountainBear]

I was at Cabela's yesterday and they had a couple Howas on the used rack. The sticker on the stock said "Sub MOA" .They didn't have a caliber I wanted,but this looks like it might be a start.
Howa makes the Vanguard correct?
I know some varminters like them.

Yes, Howa makes the Vanguard action. These are nice rifles, although I prefer the safety and the bolt-shroud on the Howa a bit better. Small differences. If you can find one in your caliber, it would be a good start. The action is contoured to fit the base for a Remington 700, so there are lot's of options. There is a good availability of aftermarket stocks, although the stock that comes on them isn't bad...

 

[SVT-ROY]

I've been thinking for a while now of getting a Rem 700 and train for Med to long range. Great thread so far. If I got one in 308 could I shoot 7.62 x54? If so are those surplus rounds worth a dam?

 

[DieselScout]

I've been thinking for a while now of getting a Rem 700 and train for Med to long range. Great thread so far. If I got one in 308 could I shoot 7.62 x54? If so are those surplus rounds worth a dam?

No, only shoot the ammunition the gun is made for. the metric version of the .308 is a 7.62x51mm and there maybe chamber difference similar to the .223 vs 5.56x45. The 7.62x54 is also a rimmed cartridge where the 7.62x51 and the .308 isn't.

EDIT: I just looked into the 7.62x51 vs. .308 and it looks like the jury is still out. I can find articles stating the 7.62x51 has a lower pressure then the .308, but I can also find where it says it has a higher pressure. It seems most people are shooting the 7.62x51 in modern .308 bolt gun with no problem. However, do your own research and use at your own risk.

 

[mjbskwim]

Hopefully this works
Check out this video.Shows a bore from a factory Remington barrel and a custom barrel
http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/Lilja_BoreScope_VID.wmv